DM 15L two line display

[AnnoyedOne]

(12-22-2024 03:57 PM)dm319 Wrote:  Got to admit, coveting it a lot.

Ok, but I think it is already "branded".

Equivalent to "putting a ring on it"

A1

PS: Swissmicros may sell a few more DM15L's in the near future. A shame that their shipping is so slow (based on recent reports). Perhaps not their fault.

[Ross Barnes]

A user Helix reported that he was unable to stop a running program after loading firmware V33 on his DM15L. I had just installed the firmware before I saw the message. I loaded a short program with an infinite loop, started it, and I was only able to stop it using the Reset pinhole on the back. Could someone else confirm this behavior? Thank you.

See message link below:
Update V33

[rprosperi]

(12-22-2024 02:39 PM)ctrclckws Wrote:  

(12-21-2024 03:46 PM)Jase Wrote:  Man, that would be cool if the mini-me gets a 2-line option.

It does work on the older credit card size DM15 and DM16

Very sorry, please let me clarify my earlier clarification.

Some of the very earliest DM15 devices cannot have the V33 DM15 f/w installed (IIRC, these had limited ROM size), but this does not affect all earlier DM15 cc-sized models, in fact most of them will work.

Sorry for the poorly worded comments earlier.

[rprosperi]

(12-22-2024 08:53 PM)Ross Barnes Wrote:  A user Helix reported that he was unable to stop a running program after loading firmware V33 on his DM15L. I had just installed the firmware before I saw the message. I loaded a short program with an infinite loop, started it, and I was only able to stop it using the Reset pinhole on the back. Could someone else confirm this behavior? Thank you.

See message link below:
Update V33

Please list the program which you are unable to stop, I can't reproduce this problem with another simple looping program, program execution stops properly when I press [R/S] while running, without loss of control.

[Ross Barnes]

It was a simple one:
P/R
LBL A
1
+
GTO A
P/R
GSB A

I tried R/S and every other key and various combos of keys.
Gave up and Reset.
I then ran the program again thinking I might have been in some strange mode
Same result. Reset.

I've already flashed back to V32 since I use the calculator daily.
I am pretty certain that I was running my DM15L with V33 at the slower clock rate because V33 defaulted to the higher clock rate on flashing and I wanted it at the slower clock rate that V32 set by default.

I used the DM15_M1B_xx.hex images.

[Johnp_g]

(12-22-2024 10:37 PM)Ross Barnes Wrote:  It was a simple one:
P/R
LBL A
1
+
GTO A
P/R
GSB A

I tried R/S and every other key and various combos of keys.

I used the same infinite loop program and I find it DOES stop with pressing R/S and also by pressing any other key (within limits, I haven't tried them ALL, but any I press halts the running program and shows the current count in X.

I tried with DM15_33.hex and DM15_M1B_33.hex and tried at 12MHz and 48MHz. All work normally, and can be stopped and started with R/S, and stopped with any other keypress.


Cheers,

John

[rprosperi]

It works fine for me too, in both 12 and 48MHz.

@Ross Barnes - please try replacing your battery and trying again. If no change, please try reflashing (with the same version V33 M1B f/w, being sure to download from the website right-clicking the filename and using "Save Link as..." to save the file.

Thanks!

[Ross Barnes]

I went back to SwissMicros web site and download the flash file again. I diffed it again the file use before. No differences.
I reflashed V33 M1B file. I did NOT change the battery.
After reflashing I returned the display to a single line, dropped the clock rate to 12 MHz and I reentered the program. I ran the test program and I had NO problem stopping the program. I went through a few of the gyrations I did the first time I flashed V33, changing options, etc.. I reran the program again and had NO problem stopping the program.

I then flashed my two other DM15L calculators with V33, set them up identically, ran the program and had NO problem stopping the program.

I don't know why the original V33 flash wouldn't stop a running program. The first time around I had to Reset the calculator each time before rerunning the infinite loop program using the keyboard so there must have been a problem with my original flashing of V33.

Thank you for your assistance as well as the software update.

[rprosperi]

Thanks for rechecking, reflashing and retesting to check this issue. Glad to know it's now working properly (in all 3 of your DM15L machines!) and I appreciate your confirming all this so promptly.

Now you can enjoy checking out the new features!

Thanks and Merry Christmas!

[J-F Garnier]

(12-22-2024 10:37 PM)Ross Barnes Wrote:  It was a simple one:
P/R
LBL A
1
+
GTO A
P/R
GSB A

I tried R/S and every other key and various combos of keys.
Gave up and Reset.
I then ran the program again thinking I might have been in some strange mode
Same result. Reset.

I CONFIRM that there is a problem there.
I can't reproduce it when running the program with GSB A or R/S, but I reproduce the problem in USER mode and pressing [A]: the program can't be stopped by any keystroke including ON. Reset and memory clear mandatory.
Also, using SOLVE A or INTEG A on this same program leads to the same unstoppable situation.

Tested with DM15_M1B_33 at 12 or 48 MHz.
My batteries may be a bit weak (I didn't change them recently) but I don't believe this is important here.

J-F

[mfleming]

(Yesterday 08:32 AM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  Tested with DM15_M1B_33 at 12 or 48 MHz.
My batteries may be a bit weak (I didn't change them recently) but I don't believe this is important here.

J-F

Try replacing the battery and testing again. Prior to preparing my 41L for update I did my usual battery check "12 ENTER 34 +" and noticed a missed keystroke. An infinite loop would cause a steady current draw and subsequent voltage drop that could affect operation. A weak battery accounted for keystroke problems on the 15C CE.

PS. 41L also unused for a number of months before deciding to update.

[John Casper]

Is it possible to hide the keycodes in programming and show only their names

[AnnoyedOne]

(12-22-2024 03:57 PM)dm319 Wrote:  And to add...

Yeah, there are many differences between the HP-15C CE and DM15L (including the ones you mentioned).

IMHO they're minor in practice. I think that the two I posted (previously) are the significant ones.

I have a HP-15C CE. You have (access to) a DM15L. To quote the Black Knight ("Monty Python and the Holy Grail")

Quote:We'll call it a draw then?

A1

[AnnoyedOne]

(Yesterday 01:14 PM)John Casper Wrote:  Is it possible to hide the keycodes in programming and show only their names

Why would you want to? Per dm319's video above (which shows programming in action) the codes and mnemonics are displayed on different lines.

A1

PS: If you really don't want to see the keycodes a small strip of paper/etc may "hide" them

[J-F Garnier]

(Yesterday 12:41 PM)mfleming Wrote:  

(Yesterday 08:32 AM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  Tested with DM15_M1B_33 at 12 or 48 MHz.
My batteries may be a bit weak (I didn't change them recently) but I don't believe this is important here.

Try replacing the battery and testing again.

I definitively confirm that it's not a problem with batteries.
Using the same set of batteries, it happens in DM15_M1B_33 but doesn't in DM15_M1B_32.

Another use case that produces an unstoppable situation requiring a full hardware reset:
Using the same LBL A test program as above, run it indirectly with the sequence, from the keyboard:
20 , STO I , GSB I
The program can't be stopped.

J-F

[rprosperi]

(Yesterday 01:55 PM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  

(Yesterday 12:41 PM)mfleming Wrote:  Try replacing the battery and testing again.

I definitively confirm that it's not a problem with batteries.
Using the same set of batteries, it happens in DM15_M1B_33 but doesn't in DM15_M1B_32.

Another use case that produces an unstoppable situation requiring a full hardware reset:
Using the same LBL A test program as above, run it indirectly with the sequence, from the keyboard:
20 , STO I , GSB I
The program can't be stopped.

J-F

Confirmed! Frustratingly....

I'll speak with David and I'm sure we'll have a fixed version after the holidays, but meanwhile everyone please keep banging on it, let's try capture all fixes in that next release.

Thanks J-F!!

[Namir]

Updated the two DM14L that I have to the new firmware and was able to get to see two lines on the LCD. I like the new firmware and its features!

Thanks Swiss Micros!!

Namir

[Helix]

(12-21-2024 08:58 PM)Johnh Wrote:  Now we have two 2-line firmwares to consider? This through SwissMicros and also from jedbedeo:

https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-20...ight=dm15l

Setting aside resolving any remaining issues at beta stage, can anyone comment on differences in feature sets?

There was obviously a mistake in this post that I have corrected in bold characters.

Here is a non-exhaustive list of differences between the last Jebedeo’s firmware and the V33 SwissMicros firmware. I’m not considering here any HP / Moravia 15C calculator.


Jebedeo’s firmware can be considered superior on the following points:

Much faster! These comparisons have been made on the same calculator, with the V33 firmware running at 48 Mhz:
- The N-Queens benchmark is achieved in about 1.23 second instead of 3min 17s. This is 160 times faster.
- The Summation Benchmark for n=1000 is achieved in 2.15 seconds instead of 2min 31s, so this is 70 times faster.
- The Performance Index for 1000 loops is achieved in 41 seconds, instead of 22 seconds for 20 loops. This is 27 times faster.
- Johnp_g reported on the Savage benchmark 4.22 second instead of 4min 48s. This is 68 times faster.

15 digits precision instead of 10

Better handling of complex numbers.

100 permanent registers alongside 2000 permanent program steps. No memory partition needed.

106 labels instead of 26.

2 program lines displayed when editing. The SwissMicros firmware displays only one line, both in clear text and in keycodes.


Jebedeo’s firmware can be considered inferior on the following points:

Numbers in binary format instead of BCD, which leads to some non-intuitively rounded results (for example 0.1 ENTER 3 * 0.3 – is not equal to 0)

No matrices

No strict compatibility with the HP 15C. I wouldn’t call Jebedeo’s firmware a simulator, because in some areas it departs deliberately from the HP 15C behavior. Complex numbers are an example, but there are other minor differences.

No constants, no conversions.

No keycodes display when editing programs (I don’t see this as a drawback, but some will have a different opinion)

No function preview (when holding a key)

No decoding program to view and edit programs on a computer (but it’s possible to save program memory on a computer)

No help or user manual so far, so reading the entire thread devoted to this firmware is the only way to find some of its distinctive features.

[rprosperi]

(Yesterday 04:14 PM)Helix Wrote:  Here is a non-exhaustive list of differences between the last Jebedeo’s firmware and the V33 SwissMicros firmware. I’m not considering here any HP / Moravia 15C calculator.

This is a very useful list, thanks Jean Charles for making this, and including good detail.

Personally, I hope the author continues on the path he's on to make a similar but different (in some ways clearly better!) set of functionality, rather than laboring to create a 100% faithful 15C simulation. This already exists and there's no need for another, it's better (IMHO) to have choices so users can install the f/w they want depending on their goals and use cases.

[AnnoyedOne]

(Yesterday 04:30 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  ...it's better (IMHO) to have choices so users can install the f/w they want depending on their goals and use cases.

Agreed. Personally I prefer emulators over simulators. That said I do wish that the authors of the latter used another name for their creations and said emulator/simulator/etc as appropriate. A "faithful" simulator may be as good as a emulator but, unfortunately, in my experience that often isn't the case.

However, each to their own.

A1