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Eric Rechlin · 06-25-2018, 03:50 PM

A decade or so ago I had to write code to spell numbers for checks for US banks. Here's what I have; I apologize for it being in a terrible language:

Code:

Function SpellNumber(ByVal MyNumber)

    Dim Sign, Dollars, Cents, Hundreds

    Dim DecimalPlace, Count

    Dim Place(9) As String

    Place(2) = " Thousand"

    Place(3) = " Million"

    Place(4) = " Billion"

    Place(5) = " Trillion"     ' String representation of amount

    If MyNumber < 0 Then

        Sign = "Negative "

        MyNumber = MyNumber*-1

      Else

        Sign = ""

    End If

    MyNumber = Trim(Str(MyNumber))     ' Position of decimal place 0 if none

    DecimalPlace = InStr(MyNumber, ".")

    'Convert cents and set MyNumber to dollar amount

    If DecimalPlace > 0 Then

        Cents = GetTens(Left(Mid(MyNumber, DecimalPlace + 1) & "00", 2))

        MyNumber = Trim(Left(MyNumber, DecimalPlace - 1))

    End If

    Count = 1

    Do While MyNumber <> ""

        Hundreds = GetHundreds(Right(MyNumber, 3))

        If Hundreds <> "" Then

            If Dollars <> "" Then

                Dollars = ", " & Dollars

            End If

            Dollars = Hundreds & Place(Count) & Dollars

        End If

        If Len(MyNumber) > 3 Then

            MyNumber = Left(MyNumber, Len(MyNumber) - 3)

        Else

            MyNumber = ""

        End If

        Count = Count + 1

    Loop

    Select Case Dollars

        Case ""

            Dollars = "No Dollars"

        Case "One"

            Dollars = "One Dollar"

        Case Else

            Dollars = Dollars & " Dollars"

    End Select

    Select Case Cents

        Case ""

            Cents = " and No Cents"

        Case "One"

            Cents = " and One Cent"

        Case Else

            Cents = " and " & Cents & " Cents"

    End Select

    SpellNumber = Sign & Dollars & Cents

End Function

StephenG1CMZ · 06-25-2018, 04:16 PM

(06-25-2018 03:50 PM)Eric Rechlin Wrote: A decade or so ago I had to write code to spell numbers for checks for US banks. Here's what I have; I apologize for it being in a terrible language:

Code:

Function SpellNumber(ByVal MyNumber) Dim Sign, Dollars, Cents, Hundreds Dim DecimalPlace, Count Dim Place(9) As String Place(2) = " Thousand" Place(3) = " Million" Place(4) = " Billion" Place(5) = " Trillion" ' String representation of amount If MyNumber < 0 Then Sign = "Negative " MyNumber = MyNumber*-1 Else Sign = "" End If MyNumber = Trim(Str(MyNumber)) ' Position of decimal place 0 if none DecimalPlace = InStr(MyNumber, ".") 'Convert cents and set MyNumber to dollar amount If DecimalPlace > 0 Then Cents = GetTens(Left(Mid(MyNumber, DecimalPlace + 1) & "00", 2)) MyNumber = Trim(Left(MyNumber, DecimalPlace - 1)) End If Count = 1 Do While MyNumber <> "" Hundreds = GetHundreds(Right(MyNumber, 3)) If Hundreds <> "" Then If Dollars <> "" Then Dollars = ", " & Dollars End If Dollars = Hundreds & Place(Count) & Dollars End If If Len(MyNumber) > 3 Then MyNumber = Left(MyNumber, Len(MyNumber) - 3) Else MyNumber = "" End If Count = Count + 1 Loop Select Case Dollars Case "" Dollars = "No Dollars" Case "One" Dollars = "One Dollar" Case Else Dollars = Dollars & " Dollars" End Select Select Case Cents Case "" Cents = " and No Cents" Case "One" Cents = " and One Cent" Case Else Cents = " and " & Cents & " Cents" End Select SpellNumber = Sign & Dollars & Cents End Function

Your function has me wondering what a bank would do with a cheque for -1000 ("Negative 1000 dollars") Smile

**rprosperi** · 06-25-2018, 10:23 PM

(06-25-2018 02:03 PM)Gerson W. Barbosa Wrote:
(06-25-2018 01:25 PM)rprosperi Wrote: Isn't Twenty and ten eight = 100, not 98?

Cyrille meant Four Twenty and ten eight, that is, 4*20 + 18 = 98. Just a typo (‘for’ for ‘four’).

Moi, je préfère quatre-vingt-dix-sept :-)

LOL, well the laugh is on me! Strange I can see that very clearly now, but not at all earlier. There was a very short period in my life when I actually could count to 20 in French, so I should have recognized "dix-huit", but I was focused on the confusing math... thanks Gerson!

Thomas Okken · 06-26-2018, 12:24 AM

(06-25-2018 10:34 AM)grsbanks Wrote:
(06-25-2018 05:20 AM)cyrille de brébisson Wrote: 126.544
Cent vintgt-quatre virgule cinq cent quarante-quatre

Plus deux

(06-25-2018 05:20 AM)cyrille de brébisson Wrote: And I leave you with one of the most wonderfull numbers of the French language:
98 = Quatre-vingt-dix-huit or: For Twenty and ten eight! How wonderful!

Only in French French. The French-speaking Swiss or Belgians would say nonante-huit

Long ago, I was waiting in line at the ticket counter at the central train station in Lausanne, Switzerland, which is in the French-speaking part of the country. The gentleman ahead of me had a complicated problem; I think he may not have had enough money for his ticket home, or some such issue. My French was very limited at the time (still is, sad to say), but two things stood out in what I overheard: he used the word "octante," and a few moments later he said "je suis belge." I found out later that in French-speaking Switzerland, eighty is "huitante." I wonder if the ticket agent had been criticizing his French. Smile

cyrille de brébisson · 06-26-2018, 05:12 AM

Hello,

Such an interesting topic!!!

Yes, various french speaking country will use:
- Quatre-Vingts (with a final s here indicating the plural form of 20. Note that, interestingly enough, if there is some OTHER number after the 4*20, then the s is ommited for some reason. Same rule for "cent" (100))...
- Huitante (construction similar to all the other decates>20 cinqante = cinq(5) + ante)
- octante (octo + ante)

"interesting French approach to the seventies...English, has the crazy teens.."
Actually, I have long theorised that "older" languages tend to be more like the french and newer ones more like english.
If you look at english, you have special "words" for numbers from 0 to 12. From there on, you have contrustructed words. construction number 1: The teens thir-teen...nine-teen and construction number 2: the rest: twenty-two....

Older languages tend to have more special words for numbers. and use more the aditive principle than the multiplicative one (multiplication being a much more modern concept in the general population).
Hence French's use of special words up to 16 (seize) before moving to a "teen" like construction for dix-sept, (17) dix-huit, dix-neuf...
Then we use the multiplicative/base principle with decades + units for 20 to 69
before moving back to a more additive pinciple for the 70-19 (60 + 10..19) and of course 80s/90s (4*20 + n)

>disagreement about higher powers of ten: is a billion 10^9 or 10^12?
This definitely drives me nuts! When I was a kid, I learned it as one million times one million. It seemed like the change came when france anglo-saxonized itself... but it might have been just a coincidence...
This drives me nuts as it seems like a switch back, once again, to "older thinking"..
having billions be millions², and trillions be billions²... makes use, once again of the multiplicative (decimal placed base system), while the current use seems like an aditive principle once again... Not good in my opinion!

>digit grouping (comma, dot, space and probably several other symbols). From Wikipedia: 67,89,000,00,00,000 is interesting.
I discovered that one when implementing it on Prime. Prime is one of the only calculator that actually offers options there...
Other symbols include upper tick marks (switzerland among others). and some country use different separators depending on the use case...
China separate every 4 digits. India starts with a pack of 3 and then adds digits by packs of 2!

>He said "forty", my program produced "fourty" (which I perceived as correct!)
My wife had the same disagreement with my kid's english teacher on "Fifth" over the second f is pronounced or not. Can we have a show of hand here? Who pronounces that 2nd f?

Cyrille

ttw · 06-26-2018, 05:45 AM

I pronounce the second f in fifth. I even get the k-s-th-s cluster in sixths.

grsbanks · 06-26-2018, 07:08 AM

(06-26-2018 05:12 AM)cyrille de brébisson Wrote: Actually, I have long theorised that "older" languages tend to be more like the french and newer ones more like english.
If you look at english, you have special "words" for numbers from 0 to 12. From there on, you have contrustructed words. construction number 1: The teens thir-teen...nine-teen and construction number 2: the rest: twenty-two....

I'm not so sure it has much to do with the age of the language than just general culture differences. An example of an "older" language that is more like English than French with its use of constructed words for numbers would be Japanese, which is over 5000 years old and hasn't changed a great deal in that time. "Constructed" words start as of 11 (十一 juuichi literally means "ten one"). In Cantonese it's written the same way and pronounced sahpyāt, also meaning literally ten one.

How about Welsh? An ancient celtic language that predates English and the Germanic or French influences: 11 is un deg un (one ten one).

Closer to home there's Italian, which also starts with composite words from 11 onwards (undici), as did Latin if you want something a bit older (undecim).

(06-26-2018 05:12 AM)cyrille de brébisson Wrote: having billions be millions², and trillions be billions²... makes use, once again of the multiplicative (decimal placed base system), while the current use seems like an aditive principle once again... Not good in my opinion!

That's different from what I was taught. I was taught that billions were millions^2 and trillions were millions^3. If mathematics is supposed to be a universal language then we have problems if cultures can't even agree on the magnitude of numbers Smile

(06-26-2018 05:12 AM)cyrille de brébisson Wrote: Who pronounces that 2nd f [in fifth]?

* grsbanks raises hand

StephenG1CMZ · (This post was last modified: 06-26-2018 09:16 AM by StephenG1CMZ.)

Cyrille, I too pronounce the 2nd "f" in fifth.

It wasn't until I read your post that I realised French doesn't have a word for "teenager"*- and/or if it did, the 17 18 and 19 year olds would be older than English teenagers.

*Google translates "teenager" to "adolescent"

I wonder whether using Quatre-vingts rather than huitante/octante has been correlated with being better at mental arithmetic...When I try to speak French, I pronounce an extra pause whilst my brain switches from translating to maths and back to translating. Smile

rncgray · 06-26-2018, 07:29 AM

It is amusing to see the French 'pretend' to not understand huitante and octante.

grsbanks · 06-26-2018, 07:50 AM

(06-26-2018 07:29 AM)rncgray Wrote: It is amusing to see the French 'pretend' to not understand huitante and octante.

Equally amusing is watching the Flemish and Dutch refuse to speak Dutch to each other even though their respective languages are essentially the same and certainly share a common trunk in ABN (Algemeen Beschaafd Nederlands). They prefer to speak English on the whole. It's a bit like watching a Brit and an American refuse to speak to each other in English and switch to German instead.

brickviking · 06-26-2018, 08:54 AM

(06-26-2018 05:12 AM)cyrille de brébisson Wrote: Can we have a show of hand here? Who pronounces that 2nd f?

Cyrille

Yeah, I pronounce that second f, otherwise it ends up coming out as fith. I wuz drug up proper, after all.

(Post 251)

Thomas Okken · 06-26-2018, 12:03 PM

(06-26-2018 07:50 AM)grsbanks Wrote:
(06-26-2018 07:29 AM)rncgray Wrote: It is amusing to see the French 'pretend' to not understand huitante and octante.

Equally amusing is watching the Flemish and Dutch refuse to speak Dutch to each other even though their respective languages are essentially the same and certainly share a common trunk in ABN (Algemeen Beschaafd Nederlands). They prefer to speak English on the whole. It's a bit like watching a Brit and an American refuse to speak to each other in English and switch to German instead.

Huh! I haven't had that experience, I would speak Dutch in Flanders and so would they, no problem. However, I could imagine it being a different story depending on where in Flanders you are, since there are parts where they speak a dialect that is so thick that even other Flemings can't understand it. I've seen such dialect speakers be subtitled, in Dutch, on Flemish TV. Smile

grsbanks · 06-26-2018, 12:19 PM

(06-26-2018 12:03 PM)Thomas Okken Wrote: Huh! I haven't had that experience, I would speak Dutch in Flanders and so would they, no problem. However, I could imagine it being a different story depending on where in Flanders you are, since there are parts where they speak a dialect that is so thick that even other Flemings can't understand it. I've seen such dialect speakers be subtitled, in Dutch, on Flemish TV.

I have friends in a small village called Beert, between Pepingen and Halle just SW of Brussels. The son is a lawyer and he got some work in (I think, this is going back a few years) 's Hertogenbosch. He was extremely self-conscious about speaking Dutch and admitted that he would have been embarrassed by his accent. Even knowing that he was Belgian and "nederlandstalig" his Dutch colleagues always spoke English to him. Never Dutch. I asked why that was and they told me it was actually commonplace for Vlamingen and Nederlanders to refuse to speak Dutch together.

A similar subtitle thing happened in France a long time ago and remained in my memory because I nearly pissed myself laughing. There was a French Canadian series broadcast on French TV. I don't remember the name but I do remember that there were French subtitles on it!

Thomas Okken · (This post was last modified: 06-26-2018 12:58 PM by Thomas Okken.)

(06-26-2018 12:19 PM)grsbanks Wrote: I have friends in a small village called Beert, between Pepingen and Halle just SW of Brussels. The son is a lawyer and he got some work in (I think, this is going back a few years) 's Hertogenbosch. He was extremely self-conscious about speaking Dutch and admitted that he would have been embarrassed by his accent. Even knowing that he was Belgian and "nederlandstalig" his Dutch colleagues always spoke English to him. Never Dutch. I asked why that was and they told me it was actually commonplace for Vlamingen and Nederlanders to refuse to speak Dutch together.

A small village, within walking distance of Wallonia? I could imagine how people even in Den Bosch might have trouble keeping up with his dialect. And the situation is not symmetrical, since all Flemings, no matter where they live, get exposed to Standard Dutch on TV every day.

But speaking of Standard Dutch, listen to the segment that starts at 1:15 in this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDfokCMBKnw&t=75
That's an announcer on VRT één, which is a station that Dutch people can usually understand just fine. While I understand most of what she says, some words zip right past me. I'd probably get used to it fairly quickly, but any thicker and I can see Dutch people thinking, screw this, let's just switch to English instead.

EDIT: Forgot my counterpoint, which is that I've found people in the parts of Flanders where I've been, namely, Antwerp and some towns up north, to be perfectly understandable. They have an accent, which Dutch people (including me) tend to find charming, but their Dutch is perfectly understandable, the difference being similar to the difference between BBC English and Standard American English.

**rprosperi** · 06-26-2018, 01:23 PM

(06-26-2018 05:12 AM)cyrille de brébisson Wrote: Such an interesting topic!!!

>He said "forty", my program produced "fourty" (which I perceived as correct!)
My wife had the same disagreement with my kid's english teacher on "Fifth" over the second f is pronounced or not. Can we have a show of hand here? Who pronounces that 2nd f?

Cyrille

It truly is interesting! So many subtle variations...

While I can't speak for all Americans, I have traveled to all major areas of the country and I've never heard anyone here pronounce 'fifth' without the 2nd f. Of course, I didn't ask folks to use the word fifth wherever I travelled, but if it was used that way, it would be very noticeable.

Possibly related, the popular American rapper "50 Cent" has a name which in proper English should nominally be pronounced "Fifty Cent" (with the 2nd f pronounced) but in actual use is pronounced as "Fitty Cent". While the origin of this may have come from the rap community, it is in widespread use today (at least in all homes that raised kids that are under 30 today).

In a related but OT topic, here is an article on phrases Americans use, which are supposed to be not understood by non-Americans. Is that true, at least in general?

Thomas Okken · (This post was last modified: 06-26-2018 01:57 PM by Thomas Okken.)

(06-26-2018 01:23 PM)rprosperi Wrote: In a related but OT topic, here is an article on phrases Americans use, which are supposed to be not understood by non-Americans. Is that true, at least in general?

I knew all but three (behind the eight ball, cattywumpus, and clutch), but I didn't learn them in school. I picked them up from American books and movies, mostly. For example "bought the farm" is a phrase I first encountered in "Space" by James Michener, where it is how test pilots say that one of them has died (which was not an uncommon occurrence, apparently). I figured out the meaning from context, but it took longer before I discovered that this phrase was in common use, and not specific to test pilot jargon. Smile

Oh, and I learned "flake" from Frank Zappa. Smile

cyrille de brébisson · 06-27-2018, 05:14 AM

Hello,

>I was taught that billions were millions^2 and trillions were millions^3.
>If mathematics is supposed to be a universal language then we have problems

What I discovered is that advanced math is prety much universal (all mathematician do agree on definitions).
Basic math (+, -, *, /) is also OK...
But anything in between!!!! is kind of a mess.
A good example is triangles. The french definition is a figure formed by 3 points. The Anglo-saxon one is 3 non-alligned points! makes a big difference!
So you see, there is not even agreement on somehting as simple as a triangle!

>It is amusing to see the French 'pretend' to not understand huitante and octante.

30 years ago, most french would never have gotten any exposure to these words. and trully would not have understood them...
Now, knowledge is more spread around and I would imagine that more French people do have a clue. However, due to the fact that they would very rarely have heard the words, they probably would have a temporary brain stall while their cognition tries to catch up...

Cyrille

StephenG1CMZ · 06-27-2018, 06:12 AM

Another definition to catch people out: A trapezium or trapezoid means something different in .us English and .uk English...I'm not sure how you'd pronounce or describe the shape you wanted in the other country.

Dieter · 06-27-2018, 07:05 AM

(06-26-2018 07:08 AM)grsbanks Wrote:
(06-26-2018 05:12 AM)cyrille de brébisson Wrote: having billions be millions², and trillions be billions²... makes use, once again of the multiplicative (decimal placed base system), while the current use seems like an aditive principle once again... Not good in my opinion!

That's different from what I was taught. I was taught that billions were millions^2 and trillions were millions^3

What ?!?-)

I think most of us will agree that a million is 10^6.
So if a billion is this squared, that's 10^12 ?

And a trillion is this again squared, i.e. 10^24 ?
Or millions³, i.e. 10^18 ?

I finally looked this up on Wikipedia and found there are two different definitions ("long scale" and "short scale"). This explains the most names and numbers found in this thread. But not all. ;-)

Take a look at this Wikipedia page. This may shed some light on this issue. Especially you may take a look at the world map in the "Current usage"section.

Dieter

grsbanks · 06-27-2018, 07:31 AM

(06-27-2018 07:05 AM)Dieter Wrote: Take a look at this Wikipedia page. This may shed some light on this issue. Especially you may take a look at the world map in the "Current usage" section.

That page certainly confirms what I was taught and why.