HP Prime vs TI-84 Plus CE for Jr. High and High School

[JDW]

Thank you for your comments, Steve. My final decision on what to buy will be based on how the school responds to my email asking for clarification on what their rules are and why they are making such a strong recommendation for one particular calculator.

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Tim, I still await hearing your answer to the question put forth in my previous message, but I have yet another question, if you don't mind.

When I was showing online info about the Prime to my daughter (she is 15 and in high school), she was turned off at first by the design of the Prime (she really likes pink and mint colors far more than glass and metal, I'm afraid) but then she grew rather excited when she saw the CAS function which the TI-83 Plus and TI-84 Plus CE do not have. But despite having CAS, the Prime is still listed on the College Board approved calculators web page. It does appear, however, that some high schools completely forbid use of the Prime (and CAS calculators from TI), regardless of the fact the Prime has a Test Mode which allows easy disabling of CAS (and many other calculator functions too). So my question is this. How does HP approach schools, specifically high schools, to be open to the Prime when many seem so concerned about forbidding calculators that have CAS? It would seem the only thing HP could do would be to make them understand how the TEST MODE works, but I fear that some teachers and schools are to lazy or stubborn to be open-minded toward that.

The school I have my children in currently does not have a policy on CAS. Then again, this upcoming semester is the first time they've made a "STRONG recommendation" on which calculator they want students to use (The TI-83 Plus), which implies things could change in the future.

Thank you in advance for your time, Tim.

[grsbanks]

Leaving aside political arguments for a minute, the Prime is superior to the TI-83 in every way. It's faster and has more capacity and features. The connectivity with a Mac or PC is far faster and more intuitive than "TI-Connect" and the touch-sensitive screen has its uses.

If your daughter takes a Prime to school, her classmates are going to be rather envious! I don't think peer pressure will be bearing down on her, I think she will be a bit of a trend setter when classmates see how easily and quickly she gets results and how stunning the display is.

[JDW]

"Trendsetter" would be a positive way to put it if my 15-year-old walked into High School with a Prime. But looking at it negatively, it could also spark jealously and envy among her peers.

I did receive a reply from the school though. I was informed their recommendation is only that, and they don't even have a calculator requirement. But of course, because of the recommendation at least some students would have a graphic calculator, and such students would have an advantage over those who do not. They also said that any of the calculators listed on the College Board approved list are acceptable in the school's eyes. No mention was made of CAS, which implies they are not concerned about it. Even if they became concerned about it down the line, the Prime has a test mode that allows it to be disabled, so that shouldn't become a problem, I wouldn't think.

Another interesting thing is the Prime doesn't appear in the calculators section on the HP Japan website. You have to click the magnifier icon and search for it by name. And then if you go to the HP store in Japanese, the Prime isn't listed at all, even though it does appear in the HP USA store. The Prime is way overpriced on Amazon Japan (about $200 a pop), so I'll likely get one through a seller in the US and then have it transshipped to me. Whether I buy just one for my daughter (who is in high school) or two for both my kids (my son is only starting Jr. High) is something I am still mulling.

Anyway, my thanks to everyone who replied and offered advice.

[grsbanks]

(07-09-2018 07:25 AM)JDW Wrote:  Another interesting thing is the Prime doesn't appear in the calculators section on the HP Japan website.

I honestly feel that HP has lost the plot when it comes to calculators.

Here in the UK, the only scientific calculators you can buy direct from HP are a pair of non-programmable Casios with an HP logo slapped on them. It's pitiful.

(07-09-2018 07:25 AM)JDW Wrote:  The Prime is way overpriced on Amazon Japan (about $200 a pop)

That's not a whole lot more than we pay on Amazon UK.

[ijabbott]

(07-12-2018 07:09 AM)grsbanks Wrote:  

(07-09-2018 07:25 AM)JDW Wrote:  Another interesting thing is the Prime doesn't appear in the calculators section on the HP Japan website.

I honestly feel that HP has lost the plot when it comes to calculators.

Here in the UK, the only scientific calculators you can buy direct from HP are a pair of non-programmable Casios with an HP logo slapped on them. It's pitiful.

They have the HP 35s as well.

Quote:

(07-09-2018 07:25 AM)JDW Wrote:  The Prime is way overpriced on Amazon Japan (about $200 a pop)

That's not a whole lot more than we pay on Amazon UK.

I should have bought one a week ago when it dropped to about £95 before going back up to £125.

[grsbanks]

(07-13-2018 10:13 AM)ijabbott Wrote:  

(07-12-2018 07:09 AM)grsbanks Wrote:  Here in the UK, the only scientific calculators you can buy direct from HP are a pair of non-programmable Casios with an HP logo slapped on them. It's pitiful.

They have the HP 35s as well.

Really?

I'm not sure where I'd have to look for them unless they cost under £6 or over £4487...

Oh, and it looks like the HP-300s+ (and 17bII+) is now unavailable, meaning that HP now sells (direct) the grand total of two calculators. A rebadged Casio fx-85MS as a scientific machine and the HP-10bII+ for a financial.

[ijabbott]

(07-13-2018 10:33 AM)grsbanks Wrote:  

(07-13-2018 10:13 AM)ijabbott Wrote:  They have the HP 35s as well.

Really?

I'm not sure where I'd have to look for them unless they cost under £6 or over £4487...

You have to search for it specifically in the search text box, rather than use the filters. Okay, so the web-site sucks!

[grsbanks]

(07-13-2018 05:12 PM)ijabbott Wrote:  You have to search for it specifically in the search text box, rather than use the filters. Okay, so the web-site sucks!

Got it, thanks.

Yep. That does kind of suck.

I see no HP Prime there, which is a shame given that it's meant to be HP's flagship calculator at the moment...

[JDW]

If you go to the HP website and switch to Japan, you will find HP calculators but not the Prime UNTIL you specifically search for the Prime. But the biggest problem of all comes when you try to open the HP Japan Store in order to BUY the Prime. You can't. Why? Because it isn't there. Seriously. It's NOT there. If HP isn't committed to selling the Prime outside the USA, is HP really committed to the Prime?

Again, you can find the Prime on Amazon Japan by available only from sharks who import the Primes and then demand >US$200 for the thing. It's insanity in the extreme. What then compels Japanese calculators to buy the Prime? Nothing.

I for one simply cannot understand this. If some of you can, please explain.

[pier4r]

I find the idea of teachers that cannot integrate new tools, I mean not every day but every 5-10 years, and they fight against them quite worrisome.

If one is going to form the way of thinking of someone else and his thinking approach is not flexible, that is the wrong person for the job.

I would find ok if a teacher said "look I have this device, it does the job, I know it is old and out of production. I can help directly with similar products otherwise the pupil will need to learn the manual to figure out how to do the same operations and well, that is a good activity to do"

But that is my feeling.

[ijabbott]

I should think the TI-84 Plus CE is similar enough to the TI-83 Plus to be able to follow along. Okay, so there are some extra menu options and a higher res colour screen (which make screen updates slower than the old calculator!), but they shouldn't be major hurdles. Plus, it's available in pink.

[ijabbott]

If the choice is between the Prime and the 84 Plus CE, how about buying both? One for your daughter to take to school and one for general home use. (Okay, perhaps there are other budgetary considerations such as the wife needing a new handbag, or the cost of living in Japan. )

[grsbanks]

One great thing about the 84+CE is that you can program it in C. An eZ80 running at 48MHz can get some pretty decent number crunching done

The same benchmark algorithm implemented in TI-Basic on this machine and taking 1844 seconds (i.e. a whisker over 1/2 hour) to complete gets finished on the Prime (in HP-PPL) in 10.3 seconds and again on the 84+CE but in C in about 1.5 seconds.

[JDW]

(07-15-2018 04:23 PM)grsbanks Wrote:  One great thing about the 84+CE is that you can program it in C.

Thank you for pointing that out. I'm sure that information will be useful for some. But my children are the typical "math is NOT fun" types who merely want the best College Board approved calculator they can get, use it through classes, ace their tests, and then set it aside if at all possible. Even I myself, who am an EE now, never really liked math in school. That is due in part to instructors and in part to textbooks. Unless you have no right-brain at all, math isn't naturally what I would call enjoyable, even when you come to understand it. Mathematicians and many in this forum may disagree, but no surprises there. This isn't a criticism of those who love math, but it is a reality among your average person, even in countries which typically have high math scores relative to the USA.

So what I am saying is that when you purchase a calculator for a student, its programmability is a consideration. But after a very long multi-day conversation with my own children, programmability isn't a key concern at all for them.

In the end, I purchased 2 HP Primes from Walmart, since Walmart has the lowest price I could find outside Amazon, at about $118 (pre tax). Amazon has them but only through 2 marketplace sellers which are very fishy. There's one selling for $116 on Amazon, but reading through the comments we find it's the Spanish package version, imported to the US, of all things. And while I am well aware you can switch the calculator to English, why not pay $2 more and get a nice package and printed materials in a language (English) you can understand? It's also terribly unfortunate that HP doesn't appear interested in selling the Prime, as evidenced by the fact the HP US site shows a gray "Out of Stock" badge right next to "ships in 1 business day," which surely would confuse potential buyers. And since I live in Japan, I checked the HP Japan site, but their site doesn't even list the Prime at all, not even if you search for it! So even though I made an informed decision in buying the Prime, I also feel somewhat stupid too. Not because the calculator is bad, but because HP is clearly doing nothing to sell the thing properly. That to me is simply mind-boggling.