Preferred calculator program language

[morex]

Hello:

I'm wondering what is the preferred calculator program language for the users of the forum

I have calculators with BASIC, Keystroke, FOCAL, RPL, etc.

But I preferred RPN/FOCAL the most. I found it very simple, and practical for short/medium programs. For example in university I have written programs to help solve recurrent problems in the middle of exams.

I found RPL is powerful but dificult to read.

Thats why now I think DM42 is the best calculator available.

What are your preferences?

Regards

[edryer]

Because of the abundance of functions (and libraries available) for the 50G I probably will rarely need to program much, but I have written some short UserRPL programs, but more out of curiosity than need, also a few short programs in RPN for the 35s, but I sold that to fund one of my 50G's.

To be honest I very much did like Casio Basic as it was simple compared to RPL, but there again I had to write for the Casio as even the highest end 9860GII has few matrix functions (certainly compared to the 50G) - I also owned a TI-89 Titanium for a while but did not program it... I hated the small unchangeable font even though I could read it OK, the 9860 GII was the best (luxurious backlit LCD).

[John Keith]

1) RPL
2) Python

[Dave Britten]

(12-05-2018 05:40 PM)edryer Wrote:  To be honest I very much did like Casio Basic as it was simple compared to RPL, but there again I had to write for the Casio as even the highest end 9860GII has few matrix functions (certainly compared to the 50G) - I also owned a TI-89 Titanium for a while but did not program it... I hated the small unchangeable font even though I could read it OK, the 9860 GII was the best (luxurious backlit LCD).

The TI-89 is pretty awful for basic usability and number crunching, but the programming capabilities are very nice.

I too really like the Casios, but I find their version of BASIC somewhat lacking (there's nothing comparable to a simple PRINT command, for example). And they got rid of the array memories around the second generation (e.g. A[5] is the same as F), and those made it really easy to whip up a MISO solver. Models since then don't have indirect addressing of the A-Z variables, only things like list or matrix elements.

[Joe Horn]

For me, it depends on the simplicity of the task being programmed. If what's needed is a quick-and-dirty routine for cranking out something relatively simple, then either RPL (which I *think* in) or RPN keystroke programming (e.g. FOCAL) are my favorites. But if the task is a large, complicated project, where huge-source-code readability and maintainability are vital, then the programmer-friendliness of higher-level languages becomes more valuable than the speed with which quick-and-dirty routines can be thrown together in RPL or FOCAL. HP-71 BASIC with a few structured-programming lexfiles added (e.g. the JPC ROM) and HP PPL are my favorites for large jobs.

[compsystems]

For the teaching of mathematics (preparatory and university), not only numerical but also symbolic languages are required, for this reason, I program in GIAC with its IU (xCAS-PC) and its port to the HPprime.

[toml_12953]

I like HPPL on the Prime or BASIC-like languages on many machines. Those procedural languages work the way I think - linearly.

[Claudio L.]

I like RPL for quick prototyping, and because it integrates really well with the way the stack works (which in turn integrates really well with my brain's workflow). However, RPL gets complicated for larger projects, especially when "stackrobatics" are used. In my case I decided to improve RPL rather than switching to another language. I think it got a lot better (talking about newRPL of course) with easy to create and use local variables, combined with persistent comments, but I still need to convince the larger audience to use it like that instead of trying the same old stackrobatics (which I admit, I fall for all the time). RPL code looks very different when written that way.

As far as other (calculator?) languages, the one I like most is Lua for it's extreme simplicity (much like BASIC) while still being very clean and readable.
Even though I don't use it much, I like the way it's designed: simple flow structures (like BASIC), no complicated types, no complicated syntax, no annoying forced indentation (looking at you, Python), no null pointers (now aiming my cannons at C).
Unfortunately it's falling out of favor vs. python, which is quickly becoming the standard for interpreted languages.

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

It really depends what for. For a quick program that I need only once (like trying out different values in an equation) I would either take keystroke RPN or (TI) AOS. I have no preference between the two.

For something needed more often and especially programs I may want to modify after some months or years my clear preference is BASIC. Because it is easy to "read" and modify and alphanumeric input and output (like prompting for values) is simple and quick.

I would like to say "C" as well but unfortunately my only pocket calculator capable of this (Casio PB-2000C) does not work so I never could try it out for real.

Regards
Max

[HP67]

I don't have a Prime so I haven't seen the language it uses.

I like RPL much better than keystroke programming but it is an exercise in hurting yourself. It just feels good when it works but it's painful to change anything. Still, having a FORTH-like language on a calculator is great.

I would like to try Saturn ASM and ARM ASM on my 50g but I haven't had time. Too many other projects and interests. Haven't seen any threads on this in many years.

[grsbanks]

The machine I'm going to want to use, and therefore the language involved, depends on what I need to do.

If it's something fairly simple that doesn't require much thought to program then the first machine I'll reach for will be a HP-41C, DM41L or DM42. I can figure out the algorithm in RPN and program the keystrokes easily enough.

If I need a bit more structure then I'll reach for a HP 50g or a Prime. RPL means you have to sit down and think about what you're doing, resulting in less likelihood of an error creeping in. HP-PPL is good for sheer speed (especially on the Prime G2) but don't even think about entering a program directly on the Prime's keyboard. Use the ConnKit and the Virtual Prime to get everything working and transfer the program to a physical Prime to take it out in the field.

If I really need extreme speed then I'll reach straight for my Prime G2 or I'll write whatever I need in C for the TI Voyage 200, TI-92 Plus or TI-84 Plus CE.

[grsbanks]

(12-06-2018 09:35 PM)HP67 Wrote:  I don't have a Prime so I haven't seen the language it uses.

HP-PPL. It's similar to Pascal and therefore structured and procedural.

It's also freakin' fast, especially on the latest and greatest G2 (Rev. D hardware).

[JMBaillard]

Hi !
RPL is great but my favorite
programming language remains RPN ( HP41 ) !
Best,
JMBaillard

[Valentin Albillo]

.
Hi,

(12-05-2018 04:56 PM)morex Wrote:  I'm wondering what is the preferred calculator program language for the users of the forum [...] What are your preferences?

Let's see:

• I've written several hundred RPN programs for various HP calculators (HP-25, HP-34C, HP-67/97, HP-41C, all Voyagers [HP-10C, 11C, 12C, 15C, 16C], HP42S, HP35s, ...), from simple routines to very long, complex programs (the vast majority actually, 90% of them unpublished).
• I've written some 100+ BASIC programs for various Sharp, Casio, and Tandy Pocket Computers (95% of them unpublished)
• I've written some 200+ BASIC programs for the HP-71B (again mostly unpublished)
• I've written about a dozen or so programs in assorted languages for various not-so-common calculators (all of them unpublished)
  

That said, my preferred calculator language by far and above all is HP-71B BASIC, which is the one I still use to this day for nearly every computation that goes my way, be it concocting a simple fun challenge, solving some mathematical problem I've just learned about, exploring a new topic, or even for professional use.

The advantages for me are so overwhelming over anything else that it's a no contest as far as I'm concerned. HP-71B BASIC it is.

Regards.
V.

[pier4r]

HPPL
Basic if would be available with long variables and similar othr languages.
Micropython (if I would run it)
RPL and similar
RPN.

But RPL is good enough for me as I bought 4 x 50g and I want to use them.
HPPL when I have to unleash the prime app on android.

[DavidM]

(12-06-2018 04:24 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  ...RPL gets complicated for larger projects, especially when "stackrobatics" are used. In my case I decided to improve RPL rather than switching to another language. I think it got a lot better (talking about newRPL of course) with easy to create and use local variables, combined with persistent comments, but I still need to convince the larger audience to use it like that instead of trying the same old stackrobatics (which I admit, I fall for all the time). RPL code looks very different when written that way.

The efficient use of local variables is one of the reasons that I usually code in SysRPL instead of UserRPL. I share your view that RPL becomes much more readable/maintainable when locals are used appropriately. The other reasons I lean toward SysRPL are performance and features.

IMHO, the single most significant factor that makes both RPL and RPN programs difficult to read and maintain is the fact that you can't directly see what the stack contains when you are simply browsing the code. You have to maintain an awareness of those contents in some other way (manually tracking them with pencil/paper, comments, or just in your head). The use of locals with meaningful names can help that immensely.

If at some point in time I find myself with the spare funds to acquire a Prime, I bet I will like HP-PPL as a language. Still not sure about the Prime's limited support of RPN, though.

[David Hayden]

As with others, for me it depends on the task at hand.

But I'll give a shout out for RPN keystroke programming because it's so easy to learn, so easy to teach and so easy to use on a calculator. The big drawback is that it's so hard to read, at least for me. We're all used to infix notation so it's hard to understand an expression in RPN's post-fix.

RPL is a great combination of power in a language whose implementation is light weight.

HPPPL is a Real Language.

[Eddie W. Shore]

I'm partial to the HP Prime PPL, RPN keystroke would be a close second for me. I also like Python.

[Giancarlo]

Hello,
Even if my mind is set on RPL, I think Hppl is an improvement.
I would improve the screen Touch commands integration which is pretty complicated (to me at least).

Thanks

Giancarlo

[RMollov]

(12-08-2018 03:16 PM)David Hayden Wrote:  As with others, for me it depends on the task at hand.

But I'll give a shout out for RPN keystroke programming because it's so easy to learn, so easy to teach and so easy to use on a calculator. The big drawback is that it's so hard to read, at least for me. We're all used to infix notation so it's hard to understand an expression in RPN's post-fix.

RPL is a great combination of power in a language whose implementation is light weight.

HPPPL is a Real Language.

Agreed, just wondering if "real language" is best suited for a pocket calculator.
I always thought calculator language should facilitate quick small tasks and RPN and RPL did it. Actually in the past they did a lot more, these times are now gone.
I personally can't think of real life reason learning yet another "real language".
Cheers,