EEVBlog #1159 Dave Jones reviews the DM42

[ijabbott]

He should have RTFM!

[TomC]

Mostly a good review.

TC

[burkhard]

Wow, that's a very solid review out of Dave Jones, who is no pushover. Nice.

He's got 600K subscribers, and that video which has been up fewer than 24 hours, has had 42K views already! I wonder how many sales that will generate from his viewers? Let's hope a bunch. Economies of scale mean everything for those of us looking forward to continued nice products out of Swiss Micros.

It was also nice that he recognized a couple times (and put up links for) the hard work of Thomas Okken in creating Free42 which was an essential enabler.

[Gerson W. Barbosa]

I quite don’t agree with the title. I don’t have a DM42, but I have two WP34S calculators with similar precision. Actually, the result of the forensic test is slightly closer to 9 on mine. Nonetheless, a great and enthusiastic review.

Anyway, I’d love to get myself one just to run my Reciprocal Fibonacci Constant program on it. The equivalent WP34 program has only 43 lines (including LBL & END), but it doesn’t get all 34 digits right as expected for argument 9 (because of the built-in FIB function not being duly rounded to the nearest integer in double precision mode when arguments are integer).

Code:


00 { 103-Byte Prgm }
01▸LBL "RFC"
02 STO 03
03 XEQ 01
04 STO 05
05 +/-
06 SIGN
07 RCL 03
08 RCL+ ST Y
09 Y↑X
10 STO 02
11 LASTX
12 XEQ 01
13 STO 06
14 CLX
15 STO 01
16 RCL 03
17 STO+ ST X
18 ENTER
19 XEQ 01
20 RCL- 02
21 X<>Y
22 1
23 +
24 XEQ 01
25 STO 04
26▸LBL 00
27 RCL+ 01
28 RCL× 02
29 RCL 05
30 1/X
31 STO+ ST T
32 X<> ST L
33 X↑2
34 X<>Y
35 ÷
36 STO 01
37 X<> 05
38 X<> 06
39 STO 05
40 STO- 06
41 X<> 04
42 X<>Y
43 STO- ST Y
44 STO 04
45 DSE 03
46 GTO 00
47 RCL+ 01
48 1/X
49 RCL+ ST Z
50 RTN
51▸LBL 01
52 0.5
53 ASINH
54 ×
55 E↑X-1
56 5
57 SQRT
58 ÷
59 NOT
60 +/-
61 END

[Thomas Okken]

It is a bit funny since super-high precision was never one of my goals for Free42. I just wanted HP-42S compatibility, and would have been perfectly happy with 12 digits like the original. But I didn't feel like writing my own decimal floating-point library, and given what was available, first from Hugh Steers and then from Intel, it just happened to work out this way.

Oh well, as long as it's good publicity!

[Tugdual]

Interesting comment from Dave on the keyboard construction. I somehow believe that the original HPs had a hinge on each key while on the dm42 it is a plastic bloc that is bent. To me that is a no go especially for 200€ since I have no faith in the durability of this solution (also for that price I would rather go for a 150€ Prime with color touch screen and a lot more features).
Anybody knows more on this ?

[Didier Lachieze]

(12-19-2018 06:49 AM)Tugdual Wrote:  Interesting comment from Dave on the keyboard construction. I somehow believe that the original HPs had a hinge on each key while on the dm42 it is a plastic bloc that is bent.

The change from individual keys to a key frame happened with the Pioneer series, so the original HP 42S (and later on all HP 48 models) has a similar keyboard construction to the DM42.

Here is a detailed picture of the 48SX construction from the June 1991 HP Journal:

The topcase of the HP 48SX is a four-color, injection molded part. Its 49 keys are an integral part of the topcase; each key is attached and guided by two small cantilevers.
   

[burkhard]

(12-19-2018 06:49 AM)Tugdual Wrote:  Interesting comment from Dave on the keyboard construction. I somehow believe that the original HPs had a hinge on each key while on the dm42 it is a plastic bloc that is bent. To me that is a no go especially for 200€ since I have no faith in the durability of this solution (also for that price I would rather go for a 150€ Prime with color touch screen and a lot more features).
Anybody knows more on this ?

Apples and Oranges concerning the Prime v. DM42.
The Prime is really targeted to modern students and Millennials who need a touch screen, things flashy to keep their attention, and a "less confusing" algebraic entry system. Some rudimentary RPN capability is tossed on as an afterthought to try to placate the old guys whose earlier machines have worn out. I don't blame HP for making those design choices... that is where market opportunity lies for a big company, even a tiny arm of a big company.

The DM42 is (almost) a flash back in time with the exception of a very nice (albeit B&W) screen that wasn't available 30 years ago. But it's mostly for old school fans, a niche market.

If you like the old way of doing things, go with the DM42. If you are a frappuccino-sipping, selfie-snapping Millennial, the Prime might be a better fit.

[pier4r]

OT.

(12-19-2018 02:24 PM)burkhard Wrote:  The Prime is really targeted to modern students and Millennials who need a touch screen, things flashy to keep their attention, and a "less confusing" algebraic entry system.


....
If you like the old way of doing things, go with the DM42. If you are a frappuccino-sipping, selfie-snapping Millennial, the Prime might be a better fit.

Such generalizations disqualify themselves as they superficially seem "cool" but then after a bit of thinking they really show how empty they are.

Every generation has good and bad apples (according to this or that moral metric). You cannot really say that an entire generation of million of people is less worth than other generations, that would make no statistical or historical sense.

Without considering that you are insulting million of people at once. A quick way to classify oneself as bad.

[Eric Rechlin]

(12-19-2018 02:24 PM)burkhard Wrote:  If you like the old way of doing things, go with the DM42. If you are a frappuccino-sipping, selfie-snapping Millennial, the Prime might be a better fit.

I am a Millennial and I prefer the DM42 over the Prime.

[burkhard]

(12-19-2018 07:06 PM)Eric Rechlin Wrote:  

(12-19-2018 02:24 PM)burkhard Wrote:  If you like the old way of doing things, go with the DM42. If you are a frappuccino-sipping, selfie-snapping Millennial, the Prime might be a better fit.

I am a Millennial and I prefer the DM42 over the Prime.

I didn't say all Millennials, just the "frappuccino-sipping, selfie-snapping" variety :-)

[cdmackay]

In my limited experience so far, it seems that the Prime does some (perhaps many) things better, out of the box, than my 50g, for example.

But as I'm finding, the 50g was designed for someone who wants to put things together for themselves, from a comprehensive set of building blocks. The Prime less so, to me, so far.

Also, don't completely write off the flashy touchscreen: for fiddling with graphs it's wonderful.

I'm quite happy (and lucky) to have both.

edit: but it's my DM42 I pick up when I want to quickly do something

[burkhard]

(12-19-2018 04:45 PM)pier4r Wrote:  OT.

(12-19-2018 02:24 PM)burkhard Wrote:  The Prime is really targeted to modern students and Millennials who need a touch screen, things flashy to keep their attention, and a "less confusing" algebraic entry system.


....
If you like the old way of doing things, go with the DM42. If you are a frappuccino-sipping, selfie-snapping Millennial, the Prime might be a better fit.

Such generalizations disqualify themselves as they superficially seem "cool" but then after a bit of thinking they really show how empty they are.

Every generation has good and bad apples (according to this or that moral metric). You cannot really say that an entire generation of million of people is less worth than other generations, that would make no statistical or historical sense.

Without considering that you are insulting million of people at once. A quick way to classify oneself as bad.

Oh the humanity!!! Time to seek out a "safe space"?
I referred to people like me who like RPN as "old guys" as well, even though I don't consider myself (that) old.
Lighten up a little. It was a joke.

[ijabbott]

(12-19-2018 09:59 PM)burkhard Wrote:  

(12-19-2018 07:06 PM)Eric Rechlin Wrote:  I am a Millennial and I prefer the DM42 over the Prime.

I didn't say all Millennials, just the "frappuccino-sipping, selfie-snapping" variety :-)

But they're probably too busy photographing their lunch on their smartphones to use a calculator.

[Thomas Okken]

(12-19-2018 11:00 PM)ijabbott Wrote:  

(12-19-2018 09:59 PM)burkhard Wrote:  I didn't say all Millennials, just the "frappuccino-sipping, selfie-snapping" variety :-)

But they're probably too busy photographing their lunch on their smartphones to use a calculator.

Hey, I was born in the sixties, and yet I have taken my share of selfies, and the last time I photographed my lunch on my smartphone was about two weeks ago (Korean; anyone who can get a table full of banchan and Korean fried chicken and samgyeopsal and NOT want to take a picture of that bounty has no soul). And while I have no idea what a frappuccino is, it sounds a lot like a cappuccino, which I love, so maybe I should try one of those too, next time I stagger back from the ultra-hip gym to my apartment. Any more condescending stereotypes we could all try on for size?

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(12-20-2018 04:56 AM)Thomas Okken Wrote:  no idea what a frappuccino is, it sounds a lot like a cappuccino, which I love,

Whipped cream and ice? No way!


This is a cappuccino!

[revwillie]

(12-18-2018 12:07 AM)ijabbott Wrote:  He should have RTFM!

exactly my thought. I appreciate the enthusiasm, but one of the first things he did was look for differences between the HP42 and DM42 exterior. Drawn to the lovely screen, he missed the "SETUP" substitution for "TOP.FCN". If only he had explored that a little in the beginning of the review.

And it's a shame that the help file wasn't loaded or was corrupt. That resulted in a device shipped without a physical manual OR a quick-start guide.

[tcab]

Did anyone notice him hitting shift-up to go up a line in the program mode listing? - painful to watch. You can just use up and down arrows, no need to shift - like, umm, it’s not e.g. a hp41c.

[Thomas Okken]

Yes, if you send a unit to a reviewer, a calculator whose key feature is compatibility with an existing calculator, you really should include a little leaflet highlighting the important differences: the configuration menu (OK, at least he was able to figure that out by just poking around), using SHOW to see all 34 digits, the new ALPHA entry modes, and how to use USB and the built-in flash drive.

And make sure the help file is loaded.

Not mentioning the extended SHOW is something I can understand if you assume that many DM42 buyers will already be familiar with Free42, but the other issues seem a bit careless. Good product but so-so P.R.

[pier4r]

Saw the video. Not bad but the guy on youtube often does this "I try without even knowing how it works" or "I try without being prepared" that actually is not that professional. It mixes not so good videos with his electronical explanations that are obviously better.

The same happened with a desktop calculator from hp (the 9830 maybe?), where he couldn't figure out many things. No wonder, it is a tool to solve complex stuff, not a trivial toy that one can master intuitively.

I find it a bit bad that some youtubers do not prepare before a video, as they foster the idea "everything should be simple and preparation is not needed". On the other side you have other youtubers that do amazing work and they don't mention it (crash courses, military history visualized, hpcalc videos themselves, etc...), so people think "To do an high quality video one doesn't need much preparation".

But yes the help file missing for a 200€ thing was a blow.