EEVBlog #1159 Dave Jones reviews the DM42

[Jlouis]

This is more an unpacking video than a full review.

Who don't get anxious to play with a new toy after receiving it? This is exactly what happened.

It's a very good video.

Now he will have plenty of time to RTFM.

Cheers

[Thomas Okken]

(12-20-2018 01:18 PM)tcab Wrote:  Did anyone notice him hitting shift-up to go up a line in the program mode listing? - painful to watch. You can just use up and down arrows, no need to shift - like, umm, it’s not e.g. a hp41c.

You do need to use Shift if a menu is active, because in that case, the unshifted arrow keys move between the menu rows (and in a single-row menu, they do nothing).

What I personally found a bit painful to watch about that segment was that he didn't seem to know that the arrow keys have auto-repeat. A former 42S owner should know that.

[burkhard]

(12-20-2018 02:03 PM)Jlouis Wrote:  This is more an unpacking video than a full review.

Who don't get anxious to play with a new toy after receiving it? This is exactly what happened.

It's a very good video.

Now he will have plenty of time to RTFM.

Cheers

Exactly so! There are people that do highly researched reviews in depth where they run you through all the features in a very rehearsed manner. That kind of depth requires understandably a good deal of prep and research. Obviously, one can't be very prolific doing that. They also tend to be boring for general subscribers not highly interested in the particular product under review that day.

Dave Jones's shtick is that he is kinda hyper, excited, and ebullient, but knows his stuff and is extremely candid with his opinions on things, having high standards for all: concept, design, build, and value. People send him all kinds of stuff to look at, try out, and tear into. To see him *glow* as much as he did over something that cost ≈$US200 is pretty astounding.

He has 600,000 subscribers and has put out over 1,400 videos dating back 9 years. He's doing something right. The way some of you guys would like him to do the videos, he'd have 1% of the subscribers and videos. I think he knows what he is doing, even if he makes a mistake now and then (the videos often get some subtitles added later to correct errors he made or add additional information).

Relax, everyone. It's a really good review.

[pier4r]

Don't get me wrong. For the audience he is doing well, no doubts. And his foundamental Fridays are also well done.
The dm42's video seen as unboxing video is also good.

Though if the video is seen as "quick review" of a product the the preparation is lacking. Not that others youtubers do better though when they do quick reviews.

If you go through the comments you see people saying "200€ and you weren't able to find a way to show all the digits? Not a good product". Although it is also true that the average comment quality on youtube is terrible.

[Zaphod]

(12-19-2018 06:49 AM)Tugdual Wrote:  Interesting comment from Dave on the keyboard construction. I somehow believe that the original HPs had a hinge on each key while on the dm42 it is a plastic bloc that is bent. To me that is a no go especially for 200€ since I have no faith in the durability of this solution (also for that price I would rather go for a 150€ Prime with color touch screen and a lot more features).
Anybody knows more on this ?

This type of keyboard is on all sorts of 21st century (and late 20th) consumer products , yes they can fail - but in my experience it’s down to a unintentional physical incident/accident.
I doubt any other type of keyboard would survive in a similar accident either.

[revwillie]

(12-20-2018 02:30 PM)burkhard Wrote:  Relax, everyone. It's a really good review.

OK. I just cringe at the sight of loud and boisterous misinformation and the ignorant comments that follow naturally therefrom (bugs? didn't they test this thing? 200 dollars?). Finding the online user guide is two clicks from the video page and I'm already familiar with the swissmicros dm42 pages. If I was seeing this for the first time, I'd be discouraged by the video and frustrated in an effort to do my own research.

I might have two suggestions:
1) verify the help file is loaded
2) use a helpful off image when a new unit is shipped. possibly:

[toml_12953]

(12-19-2018 02:24 PM)burkhard Wrote:  If you like the old way of doing things, go with the DM42. If you are a frappuccino-sipping, selfie-snapping Millennial, the Prime might be a better fit.

I sip frappuccinos and take selfies although I was born in 1955, squarely in the Baby Boomer generation. I was ahead of my time, I guess!

HPPL is just about the ideal language for me. If they added user-defined records, and the ability to print to a real printer from a program, I'd consider it perfect!

Besides the Prime, I also have an HP 9810a programmable desktop, an HP 35s, an HP-50g, a DM-41 and a DM-42. Those are just the HP and compatible calculators I have. I love 'em all! I can't say I like RPL much though. I think linearly one step at a time and a procedural language fits me better. I can write RPL programs but if I go back to them in a few months, I can never figure out what I did!

[zeno333]

My question is, what is the definition of a pocket calculator? Is an Android calculator App on a smartphone a pocket calculator?...If so, then the DM42 is not the most precise pocket calculator, since I know of at least 2 Android calculator Apps that are more precise, the 100 digit HiperCal and the 120 digit Champ Pro app...(I rule out the HP 50G with the addition of an added on program, since I am speaking of calcs in their standard configurations...)

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(12-21-2018 06:33 PM)zeno333 Wrote:  My question is, what is the definition of a pocket calculator? Is an Android calculator App on a smartphone a pocket calculator?

No, it's just an app on a smartphone.
You could also connect to Wolfram Alpha from your phone.

[pier4r]

(12-21-2018 06:33 PM)zeno333 Wrote:  My question is, what is the definition of a pocket calculator?

For me it needs to have a good library of math functions and a tactile input interface, not being bigger than 165mm x 85mm (see http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-9646.html ). For example graphing calculators are not pocket ones in my opinion.

Calculator apps for devices with touchscreen keyboards are only useful for emergencies since the keyboard is not tactile. (or on large screens, like 8'')

[EEVblog]

(12-20-2018 01:00 PM)revwillie Wrote:  

(12-18-2018 12:07 AM)ijabbott Wrote:  He should have RTFM!

exactly my thought. I appreciate the enthusiasm, but one of the first things he did was look for differences between the HP42 and DM42 exterior. Drawn to the lovely screen, he missed the "SETUP" substitution for "TOP.FCN". If only he had explored that a little in the beginning of the review.

Yep, I missed it. But it doesn't seem to do much anyway, so no big deal IMO.

Quote:And it's a shame that the help file wasn't loaded or was corrupt. That resulted in a device shipped without a physical manual OR a quick-start guide.

Yep, a bit disappointing, but stuff like this happens.

I did actually go looking for the manual, but just like the SETUP button, I missed it, and downloaded the scanned original HP42 guide, so I thought, "oh, it must be a complete clone and therefore doesn't have/need a manual" so I didn't look further. How could I miss it?, again, shit happens.

[EEVblog]

(12-20-2018 02:28 PM)Thomas Okken Wrote:  What I personally found a bit painful to watch about that segment was that he didn't seem to know that the arrow keys have auto-repeat. A former 42S owner should know that.

Lats time I owned a HP42S was 2006 when I posted teardown photos on this forum, and even then, I rarely used it.

[EEVblog]

(12-20-2018 02:30 PM)burkhard Wrote:  

(12-20-2018 02:03 PM)Jlouis Wrote:  This is more an unpacking video than a full review.

Who don't get anxious to play with a new toy after receiving it? This is exactly what happened.

It's a very good video.

Now he will have plenty of time to RTFM.

Cheers

Exactly so! There are people that do highly researched reviews in depth where they run you through all the features in a very rehearsed manner. That kind of depth requires understandably a good deal of prep and research. Obviously, one can't be very prolific doing that. They also tend to be boring for general subscribers not highly interested in the particular product under review that day.

Dave Jones's shtick is that he is kinda hyper, excited, and ebullient, but knows his stuff and is extremely candid with his opinions on things, having high standards for all: concept, design, build, and value. People send him all kinds of stuff to look at, try out, and tear into. To see him *glow* as much as he did over something that cost ≈$US200 is pretty astounding.

He has 600,000 subscribers and has put out over 1,400 videos dating back 9 years. He's doing something right. The way some of you guys would like him to do the videos, he'd have 1% of the subscribers and videos. I think he knows what he is doing, even if he makes a mistake now and then (the videos often get some subtitles added later to correct errors he made or add additional information).

Relax, everyone. It's a really good review.

Let me explain if I may, how this whole Youtube video blogging things works.
As burkhard said, I have released over 14000 video, and more than that if you count my 2nd channel. That's a lot of videos, and the only way to continue to do that and interact with the Youtube community and stay remotely sane is to make videos in the most efficient way possible and in the way the creator enjoys making videos. i.e. "doing it their way".

If you read my by-line, my videos are "off-the-cuff", I have zero script, near zero preparation, hit the record button and think of something to say. That's how I work, that's how I created and grew thins channel, and this how I've been doing it as a full time living now for almost 8 years.
Other creators might be the same or the complete opposite, everyone does it their own way.
I don't expect my style and channel to appeal to everyone, and that's just fine, that's why there are millions of youtube channels.

My technical tutorial videos were mentioned. Well, you might be surprised to learn I do them in exactly the same way. Almost no preparation, I clean my whiteboard, press the record button, and something comes out of my mouth. When done I edit and upload, job done, next video. Rarely do I go back to re-record something.

As for this video, it was done in my "Mailbag" style when I open the package and just have a play around with it. But in this case I thought it was cool enough to just do as a standalone video instead of being in my usual Mailbag segment. And I also was busy that day so a quick video like this I could turn out in a hour was a good choice.
Throw in the add oversight of me not finding the manual, and the help file not working, and well, that's just the way it turned out.

So for those disappointed that I didn't do my research, and didn't thoroughly review the product, sorry, but that's just the way things are. You don't have to like it, and that fine, in which case I suggest that those people do their own thorough video review and I will happily link to your video within mine.

P.S. I had to create a new account here, no idea what happened to my old account login.

[EEVblog]

(12-21-2018 02:14 PM)revwillie Wrote:  

(12-20-2018 02:30 PM)burkhard Wrote:  Relax, everyone. It's a really good review.

OK. I just cringe at the sight of loud and boisterous misinformation and the ignorant comments that follow naturally therefrom (bugs? didn't they test this thing? 200 dollars?). Finding the online user guide is two clicks from the video page

And sometimes, just sometimes, people miss that and in their haste click the link below it which is the scanned 42S manual.
And the crap thing about Youtube is you can't just fix the video and re-upload it either.
IN the end the video got over 100,000 views, a 96% thumbs up ratio, and lots of good comments.
Also, my audience (which is almost all the views) understand that "shit happens" like the failure to load the help file, and that won't think worse of the product for that.
I think it's a pretty good result for SwissMicros to get almost entirely positive coverage like that.

[rprosperi]

Dave,

Don't let the nit-picks here bother you, this is a very tough crowd! Easily the most OCD crowd I've ever encountered, but then it's a key reason I feel comfortable here.

There are many types of videos on a given subject, I really appreciate the very different viewpoints and styles.

A regular here (Logan) makes excellent videos on the DM42 that are very thoroughly researched, paced, reflective and professional. Though I've used a 42S since '88 and had a DM42 since early beta, I still learn things in his videos.

Yours are exciting, enthusiastic, brutally honest and direct about your findings, how expectations were met, and similar instant-feedback kinds of things, but I still learn things in your videos too. It's also good to see reactions from folks that are interested in calculators, but don't drink the Kool-Aid on a regular basis.

I don't always agree with your comments, or Logan's, but I almost always learn something, which is why I watch them.

When I'm looking to nit-pick, I read the viewer comments - a real wide set of, um, opinions are out there...

So, keep it up. I'll keep watching.

[EEVblog]

(12-24-2018 04:43 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  Don't let the nit-picks here bother you, this is a very tough crowd! Easily the most OCD crowd I've ever encountered, but then it's a key reason I feel comfortable here.

Don't worry, they don't. No Youtuber could survive if it bothered them. I even have a hate email address on my website, and yes, I read it :-D
And I was a very active member here back in the day, I know all about this forum :->

[ijabbott]

OFF TOPIC: I still feel sorry for that poor old Casio SL-800 that Dave teared down on one of his videos. Interesting, but painful to watch the destruction of such a rare item.

[pier4r]

(12-24-2018 03:04 AM)EEVblog Wrote:  Let me explain if I may, how this whole Youtube video blogging things works.
As burkhard said, I have released over 14000 video, and more than that if you count my 2nd channel. That's a lot of videos, and the only way to continue to do that and interact with the Youtube community and stay remotely sane is to make videos in the most efficient way possible and in the way the creator enjoys making videos. i.e. "doing it their way".

First thanks that you took the time to come here and comment!
Second. 14k videos? Wow. (I mean everything north of 100 videos for me is wow, unless there is no information in them)

Then what you did was already golden. With such amount of videos either you are a superhuman or there is no time to prepare if you want to pursue interests as well. Congratulations for the persistence!

I know youtube channels of news agencies that have less videos than you, and they have staff to work on them! Impressive.

[Thomas Okken]

(12-24-2018 02:49 AM)EEVblog Wrote:  

(12-20-2018 02:28 PM)Thomas Okken Wrote:  What I personally found a bit painful to watch about that segment was that he didn't seem to know that the arrow keys have auto-repeat. A former 42S owner should know that.

Lats time I owned a HP42S was 2006 when I posted teardown photos on this forum, and even then, I rarely used it.

Fair enough! Also, my comment was meant more as a response to a previous post than as a criticism of your video (which I did enjoy).

Regarding your old account: this site used to use forum software written by the site owner himself, but switched to MyBB in late 2013. The accounts from the old forum were not transferred to the new, so everyone had to create a new account for themselves. Most of us chose the exact same usernames as before, which is why this transition isn't so obvious if you've been away for awhile.

[Logan]

(12-24-2018 04:43 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  A regular here (Logan) makes excellent videos on the DM42 that are very thoroughly researched, paced, reflective and professional. Though I've used a 42S since '88 and had a DM42 since early beta, I still learn things in his videos.

That's very kind of you, thank you Bob!

I have definitely noticed an uptick in views on my DM42 videos since Dave's video was released. For what it's worth, I enjoyed his very enthusiastic first-time exploration of the calculator.