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hth · 03-27-2019, 10:04 PM

(02-27-2019 08:53 PM)Jurgen Keller Wrote:
(02-26-2019 07:30 PM)hth Wrote: I also want to go to MCODE hackathons...

It would be great to have an experienced MCODEr here. Just for your consideration: Switzerland is a great place to spend you vacations ;-)

It is a bit far for me these days. Was it a good hackathon?

The only hackathon I ever attended was in Zurich actually, nice place.

I sense a bit of increasing MCODE activity lately. I have been inactive for over a year due to lack of time, not due to lack of ideas. Anyway, I wonder if it would be a good idea to have a chat channel (Slack) or something similar? Maybe there are just too few of us to make sense.

Sylvain Cote · 03-27-2019, 11:35 PM

(03-27-2019 10:04 PM)hth Wrote: I wonder if it would be a good idea to have a chat channel (Slack) or something similar? Maybe there are just too few of us to make sense.

Slack is a good idea, but in my case the time difference (GMT-4h EDT) will probably not make it practical.

I am still relearning and in the process I am building a LibreOffice Calc spreadsheet with an embedded hex value interpreter outputting HP/JDA/ZenROM/NEWT instructions with comment.
I got the idea from Àngel, he said that he is using Excel to do his mcode development and I found it to be a very good idea.
My goal is to ease the development of modules by having the spreadsheet doing automatic stuff for me.

derekamos · 03-28-2019, 12:08 AM

Sylvain Cote wrote:
I am still relearning and in the process I am building a LibreOffice Calc spreadsheet with an embedded hex value interpreter outputting HP/JDA/ZenROM/NEWT instructions with comment.
---
Sounds great, here's a suggestion to make your spreadsheet programming easier. The mcodes mnemonics that are used by valued coders today (like HTH & ANGEL), are just HP & JDA, you could leave off the others - ZenRom & Newt, as they are mostly unused by anybody.
Would your finished 'spreadsheet' mcode editor/programmer be available to others when it is completed?
What other juicy features would it include?
DA

hth · 03-28-2019, 02:50 AM

(03-27-2019 11:35 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote: Slack is a good idea, but in my case the time difference (GMT-4h EDT) will probably not make it practical.

I am in GMT-7 PDT. I think we may be a bit spread out. Have to wait for those MCODE people in Europe to wake up... lol

Quote:My goal is to ease the development of modules by having the spreadsheet doing automatic stuff for me.

What are you doing, disassembly or assembly?

Sylvain Cote · 03-28-2019, 07:17 PM

(03-28-2019 12:08 AM)derekamos Wrote: The mcodes mnemonics that are used by valued coders today (like HTH & ANGEL), are just HP & JDA, you could leave off the others - ZenRom & Newt, as they are mostly unused by anybody.

I understand but I are already have included them and I have implemented a configuration tab where you can choose which mnemonics you want to use.

(03-28-2019 12:08 AM)derekamos Wrote: Would your finished 'spreadsheet' mcode editor/programmer be available to others when it is completed?

I am doing this in the commuting train when I have a place to sit, so it will take some time before a first version is complete.
I will be happy to share it when it is complete enough to be published.

(03-28-2019 12:08 AM)derekamos Wrote: What other juicy features would it include?

It is a little too soon for me to plan a feature set for something that is currently being done for my own understanding.

(03-28-2019 02:50 AM)hth Wrote: I am in GMT-7 PDT. I think we may be a bit spread out. Have to wait for those MCODE people in Europe to wake up... lol

Watch out, they can say the same in the morning from their side Wink

(03-28-2019 02:50 AM)hth Wrote: What are you doing, disassembly or assembly?

Currently I am doing disassembly, but assembly can also be done, it always depend on available time.

Sylvain

RobertM · 04-03-2019, 10:15 PM

(03-27-2019 10:04 PM)hth Wrote: ... I wonder if it would be a good idea to have a chat channel (Slack) or something similar? Maybe there are just too few of us to make sense.

Coming in late to the party, but did you guys ever start a Slack channel (or equiv)?

I've been playing around with an assembler (and starts of a disassembler) that I've been using to play with MCODE on i41CX+ and my 41CL. Mostly just messing around, but having fun and learning a bunch.

Let me know if you have a channel going.

Thanks!
-Robert

hth · 04-04-2019, 02:35 AM

(04-03-2019 10:15 PM)RobertM Wrote:
(03-27-2019 10:04 PM)hth Wrote: ... I wonder if it would be a good idea to have a chat channel (Slack) or something similar? Maybe there are just too few of us to make sense.

Coming in late to the party, but did you guys ever start a Slack channel (or equiv)?

I've been playing around with an assembler (and starts of a disassembler) that I've been using to play with MCODE on i41CX+ and my 41CL. Mostly just messing around, but having fun and learning a bunch.

Let me know if you have a channel going.

Thanks!
-Robert

No Slack channel created so far.

I can create an HP-41 dev channel, but I like to have 5 interested, or at the very least 3. Now I count us as 2.5 so far, as Sylvain did not think it was practical with the time zones.

Sylvain Cote · 04-04-2019, 02:58 AM

(04-04-2019 02:35 AM)hth Wrote: I can create an HP-41 dev channel, but I like to have 5 interested, or at the very least 3. Now I count us as 2.5 so far, as Sylvain did not think it was practical with the time zones.

Well, I said that because I thought at the time that all active mcoder were located in Europe and I did not want to be a burden on the group.
Since there are peoples in diverse locations, you can count me in.
Sylvain

Ángel Martin · 04-04-2019, 04:53 AM

(04-04-2019 02:58 AM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:
(04-04-2019 02:35 AM)hth Wrote: I can create an HP-41 dev channel, but I like to have 5 interested, or at the very least 3. Now I count us as 2.5 so far, as Sylvain did not think it was practical with the time zones.
Well, I said that because I thought at the time that all active mcoder were located in Europe and I did not want to be a burden on the group.
Since there are peoples in diverse locations, you can count me in.
Sylvain

Not sure I know what a "slack" channel is exactly (some kind of chat?), but I'm definitely also in the MCODE gang...

ÁM

Thomas Okken · 04-04-2019, 08:46 AM

(04-04-2019 04:53 AM)Ángel Martin Wrote: Not sure I know what a "slack" channel is exactly (some kind of chat?)

It is a kind of chat. It's what all the cool people use nowadays. I'm not really sure what makes it so much better than other chat systems, but it will do the job of instant messaging, with attachments, multi-party conversations, and groups a.k.a. channels.

ijabbott · 04-04-2019, 11:26 AM

(04-04-2019 04:53 AM)Ángel Martin Wrote: Not sure I know what a "slack" channel is exactly (some kind of chat?), but I'm definitely also in the MCODE gang...

It's like IRC (Internet Relay Chat), but more modern, and proprietary.

derekamos · 04-04-2019, 11:57 PM

Hi everyone,
Golly, WHATS WRONG WITH USING THIS FORUM ?
Its well established,
has HP41 mCode entries & old references already,
all the regulars are signed on,
new members can join in,
anytime 24/7 access,
Privacy if you just want to read only.
the NEW IN-THING is OUTED,
DA

Sylvain Cote · 04-05-2019, 03:50 PM

(03-27-2019 11:35 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote: I am still relearning and in the process I am building a LibreOffice Calc spreadsheet with an embedded hex value interpreter outputting HP/JDA/ZenROM/NEWT instructions with comment.
I got the idea from Àngel, he said that he is using Excel to do his mcode development and I found it to be a very good idea.
My goal is to ease the development of modules by having the spreadsheet doing automatic stuff for me.

My spreadsheet is progressing quite nicely, albeit too slowly for my taste.
Everything is processed through formula, no macros is used in the spreadsheet.
The disassembly is directed by specifying the hex value type, see below.
The only things that I need to enter are the value type and the value itself, everything else is automatically done.

Spreadsheet tabs description

The opcode tab contains all the cpu instructions lookup table (80% is done)
The entries tab contains all the OS entry points and their description. (not done yet)
The tables tab contains static text lookup tables
The config tab contains the current options used for displaying the information.
The rom tab is where I enter the values (type + opcode) and where the disassembly is displayed

Some pictures ...

opcode tab
tables tab
config tab and rom tab using HP instruction set with plain text description
config tab and rom tab using JacobDeArras instruction set with NEWT style description

Sylvain

derekamos · 04-06-2019, 01:00 AM

(04-05-2019 03:50 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:
(03-27-2019 11:35 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote: I am still relearning and in the process I am building a LibreOffice Calc spreadsheet with an embedded hex value interpreter outputting HP/JDA/ZenROM/NEWT instructions with comment.
I got the idea from Àngel, he said that he is using Excel to do his mcode development and I found it to be a very good idea.
My goal is to ease the development of modules by having the spreadsheet doing automatic stuff for me.

My spreadsheet is progressing quite nicely, albeit too slowly for my taste.
Everything is processed through formula, no macros is used in the spreadsheet.
The disassembly is directed by specifying the hex value type, see below.
The only things that I need to enter are the value type and the value itself, everything else is automatically done.

Spreadsheet tabs description

The opcode tab contains all the cpu instructions lookup table (80% is done)

The entries tab contains all the OS entry points and their description. (not done yet)

The tables tab contains static text lookup tables

The config tab contains the current options used for displaying the information.

The rom tab is where I enter the values (type + opcode) and where the disassembly is displayed

Some pictures ...

opcode tab

tables tab

config tab and rom tab using HP instruction set with plain text description

config tab and rom tab using JacobDeArras instruction set with NEWT style description

Sylvain

Great features Sylvain,
It sure looks impressive, but will you also accomodate the different sizes for 4 to 16k roms? And bank-switching code?
DA

Sylvain Cote · (This post was last modified: 04-06-2019 04:57 AM by Sylvain Cote.)

(04-06-2019 01:00 AM)derekamos Wrote: ... but will you also accomodate the different sizes for 4 to 16k roms? And bank-switching code?

8K, 16K, bank switching modules are all built with multiple 4K pages accessed differently depending on the module type.

As for the spreadsheet, all dependencies are from the ROM tab to the other tabs,
so you can duplicate the ROM tab to create ROM1, ROM2, ROMx and put the code into each 4K pages (ROMx tab).

Sylvain

derekamos · 04-06-2019, 08:38 AM

Hi Sylvain,
That seems like a big comfy lounge chair, compared to most available software out there (hard-wood stools).

I reckon Jurgen K should seriously want to use it, instead of that old SDK...

If you really intend to make it available to others - it will mean that horrid laborious task of writing up a manual, so that beginners can get up & running. Which I suppose also means, your software could become the centre of this latest MCODE revolution.
D.A

Sylvain Cote · 04-06-2019, 11:22 AM

Hello D.A.,
Thank you for your interest.
But you gave way too much importance of my upcoming spreadsheet.
I am/will be using this as a learning tool and as a directed small disassembler.
Also, I am pretty sure Àngel has already built something similar and more advanced.
Finally, the other tools are necessary, a lot more advanced and do a lot more things than my little fancy tool here.
Sylvain

CY-CL · 04-06-2019, 12:28 PM

(04-06-2019 11:22 AM)Sylvain Cote Wrote: Hello D.A.,
Thank you for your interest.
But you gave way too much importance of my upcoming spreadsheet.
I am/will be using this as a learning tool and as a directed small disassembler.
Also, I am pretty sure Àngel has already built something similar and more advanced.
Finally, the other tools are necessary, a lot more advanced and do a lot more things than my little fancy tool here.
Sylvain

Many thanks for all your publications, Sylvain

@Angel, can you publish your M-Code Advanced Documentation?

derekamos · 04-07-2019, 12:28 AM

Yes Sylvain, I understand its still a work in progress, yet with the spreadsheet functions actively working for mcode production, it has unique features not available to those other 'behemoth programs'.
I feel sure its new style 'auto' functions would make it a winner, even if still on the primitive side - for now.
DA

Jurgen Keller · 04-07-2019, 07:26 AM

(04-06-2019 08:38 AM)derekamos Wrote: ...
I reckon Jurgen K should seriously want to use it, instead of that old SDK...
...

Actually I'm quite happy with my current development environment:

I can easily write MCODE using my favorite text editor, even syntax highlighting works fine now.
I can put my source code into a Git repository (spreadsheets are often kind of binary files).
Compilation works fine, I can debug the code in M41 emulator (from SDK41), and recently I've added a deployment build target to easily send the ROM image to my HP-41CL calculator.

I understand this is a matter of personal taste and habits. I also heard that Angel is using spreadsheets.

I like a few things I've seen in Sylvain's screenshots, for example the opcode tab as the related information in the SDK41 manual is spread over several pages. It would be nice to have it in a dedicated searchable document. I can also imagine that such a spreadsheet is a great tool for disassembling and annotate existing code (which is definitely a good way to learn MCODEing).

Once, there was an initiative to create a MCODE Wiki, however, not much information has aggregated there. Maybe it's due to the annoying ads, or maybe the interested community is too small, I don't know.

From what I've learned so far during my first small steps into MCODE is that it's really fascinating and you'll learn a lot about the architecture of the HP-41. However, the learning curve is steep and therefore any tool or documentation that helps is highly appreciated.