[HP-71B], FRAM71: putting an end to feature creep

[Hans Brueggemann]

gents,
it looks like that i finally managed to get the feature creep under control, so that my FRAM71 (besides being a bunch of configurable memory modules) will also allow for a later addon that consists of an RS232-to-USB port and an IR LED. the add-on enables the HP-71B to communicate directly to a PC, while the IR LED will allow for printing on the HP82240 printer. so far, so good. what's missing now is a set of appropriate drivers to make it all work.

1) the RS232 can be accessed bytewise by PEEK$ and POKE, but the "speed" is (who would have guessed it..) inacceptable. the same holds true (to a lesser extend, that is) when trying to access it using the FORTH module via something like ": RS232TX #2C010 C! ;" that said, without some assembler programmed driver (call it RS232LEX) at hand, the interface is basically, well, useless

2) for the IR printing option, the situation is the same, but not as severe, because the IR printer itself is the speed limiting factor here. however, when wading through jake schwartz' incredible compilation, i ran across the PIRLEX, a LEX file for printing on the HP82240.

so, here are my questions:
a) what do you think of having a UART on FRAM71 ? does it make any sense at all? if so, somebody willing to volunteer on doing the driver LEX for the RS232? (call it a Programming Challenge, if you want...)
b) does somebody have the PIRLEX file and is willing to send it to me?
c) ah.. and yes, the front bezel.. anybody out there with a 3d printer?

best regards,
hans

[Garth Wilson]

Quote:a) what do you think of having a UART on FRAM71 ? does it make any sense at all?

RS-232 has been a great workhorse for 50 years, and is still used in industrial settings for its longer range (hundreds of feet is not uncommon), easier troubleshooting and making things work on the workbench, and the ease of making up custom cables. However, I wonder how many 71B owners who have a use for it already have the HP82169A or FSI169A HPIL-to-RS232 interface adapters. I have the latter, which has two RS-232 ports, and optionally allowed up to 8. There may be some potential customers interested who for various reasons did not get one of these back when they were available, and having the port on the 71 would be nice for them. I take it however that the line drivers and receivers would have to be external. Is that correct? It would still have value.

[Hans Brueggemann]

(05-06-2014 08:16 PM)Garth Wilson Wrote:  [ I take it however that the line drivers and receivers would have to be external. Is that correct? It would still have value.

the UART on the FRAM71 connects to an RS232-to-USB (FTDI) chip. so, the physical connection between HP-71B and PC is USB.

hans

[Paul Berger (Canada)]

A USB connection to a PC might be useful, however I mostly use my 71Bs with an old PC that supports a HPIL adapter so I can use the PC for keyboard and display. I also have HPIL HP82169As for serial connections, and 82162As for printing. I also print to serial dot matrix printers using a 82169A, so I would probably not use IR printing.

[Paul Dale]

I've a 71B with no peripherals which would benefit from the UART and IR.


- Pauli

[Garth Wilson]

(05-06-2014 08:33 PM)Hans Brueggemann Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 08:16 PM)Garth Wilson Wrote:  I take it however that the line drivers and receivers would have to be external. Is that correct? It would still have value.

the UART on the FRAM71 connects to an RS232-to-USB (FTDI) chip. so, the physical connection between HP-71B and PC is USB.

An RS-232 port would be useful for interfacing to a lot of instrumentation and other things besides a PC, and in fact most of my I/O needs over the years have been non-PC-related.

[Egan Ford]

(05-06-2014 07:38 PM)Hans Brueggemann Wrote:  a) what do you think of having a UART on FRAM71 ? does it make any sense at all? if so, somebody willing to volunteer on doing the driver LEX for the RS232? (call it a Programming Challenge, if you want...)

Not interested. Happy with HP-IL for RS-232.

(05-06-2014 07:38 PM)Hans Brueggemann Wrote:  c) ah.. and yes, the front bezel.. anybody out there with a 3d printer?

My kid is a 3D designer and works for both NYU's Advanced Media Labs and Shapeways. I could talk her into designing the front bezel at no cost and putting it up on the Shapeways store for others to order. You can print it in metal, plastic, etc...

[Sylvain Cote]

I have multiple copies of most of the HP-IL peripherals/interfaces made by HP.

So on your questions ...

(05-06-2014 07:38 PM)Hans Brueggemann Wrote:  a) what do you think of having a UART on FRAM71 ?

Could be interesting, but not necessary.

(05-06-2014 07:38 PM)Hans Brueggemann Wrote:  2) for the IR printing option

Same as above.

For me, a working core of the FRAM71 is more important than anything else.

Best regards,

Sylvain

[Dave Frederickson]

(05-07-2014 01:41 AM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  For me, a working core of the FRAM71 is more important than anything else.

I agree. Besides, there's always v2, or Pro, or Turbo.

Dave

[J-F Garnier]

(05-06-2014 07:38 PM)Hans Brueggemann Wrote:  what do you think of having a UART on FRAM71 ? does it make any sense at all?

I've always been reluctant to directly connect external electrical signals to the HP-71B. This machine is quite ESD sensitive and I don't like the idea to damage something. HP-IL is much safer for interfacing.

On the other hand the IR option looks nice, if it is a simple addition.
Like the others, I think the most important is the memory!

Quote: does somebody have the PIRLEX file and is willing to send it to me?

Extracted from the HHC'89 conference, here is a description of an IR module proto for the HP-71B made in the HP labs by Bruce Stevens, with the electrical schematic and the PIRLEX source listing:
HP-71B IR interface

Waiting for the FRAM71!

J-F

[Hans Brueggemann]

(05-07-2014 08:27 AM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  Extracted from the HHC'89 conference, here is a description of an IR module proto for the HP-71B made in the HP labs by Bruce Stevens, with the electrical schematic and the PIRLEX source listing:
HP-71B IR interface

yes, that's what i found. on to some OCR'ing...

hans

[Marcus von Cube]

The UART might serve those of us who don't have HP-IL and/or the PIL-Box. With an appropriate driver, the 71b could be directly connected to a PC simulating the HP-IL peripherals (IL-PER).