I'm tired of all the gripes...

[smp]

Hi folks,

I am quite tired of all the gripes against the HP Prime here.

<RANT>

"My 48 whatever could do this..." "The 50 whatever could do that..." Well, the Prime is NOT a 48 whatever, or a 50 whatever. It is its own machine. If you like using your 48 or 50, terrific, go ahead and use it. Please do not gripe that the Prime is not like it.

Then there seem to be another bunch of folks who seem intent on finding *very* complex equations that the Prime "cannot solve." Most often, another smart person here will then demonstrate how to get the solution using the Prime in a different fashion. Sometimes, all that has to be said is that the Prime warned you that the solution it provided might be incorrect, so what do you want?

Folks, can we please stop all the Prime bashing?

I have no problem with folks who (like I have in the past) are simply asking how to get something accomplished with the Prime. I fully agree that the Prime manual is quite sadly way out of date, and I fervently wish that HP would publish a new, up-to-date one. Even better, I wish that any reputable publisher would publish a book describing the Prime and how to use it, just like the old days for any calculator, computer, or piece of significant software. There were always folks publishing books on how to use them.

If you don't own a Prime, but come here to complain about it, could you please refrain? What is the sense in that? It's only aggravating to others here on the Forum.

If you own a Prime but you don't like it, I guess I can understand your point. I'm sorry that you feel you wasted your money and time. But endlessly complaining about it won't really make things any different. Endlessly demanding that HP make a different calculator is quite fruitless.

Finally, if you are using the FREE virtual Prime, and come here to complain about the Prime, can you please give it up? Again, if someone is asking a valid question about how to accomplish something, that is what this Forum is for. Ask away. But, once again, working hard to find some obscure or complex equation that fails in a certain manner, and quite often can be handled a different way just seems to me to be a waste of your time and energy, and it's quite tedious to others here.

Yes, I have the latest G2 version Prime, purchased from overseas, risking a warrantee issue (but there have been none). I have owned the original version with the low contrast colors, as well as the updated version with the higher contrast colors. I use only the Home side of the Prime. I have written some programs for my Prime, and I've shared some here in the library. I'm not a great programmer - many others here are far, far better than me. Many times I still use my 41CL because RPN is easier for me to bang out some quick calculations. I would have loved to have RPN as in the 41 in the Prime, but I understand the market that HP is selling the Prime to, and those are the breaks.

</RANT>

I am not a troll. I am not attempting to start any sort of flame war. I finally got up enough gumption to say my piece. I will not answer any responses, because I have stated how I feel. Moderators, if this breaks the rules here, please feel free to erase this post.

Thanks for listening...

smp

[DGM]

I agree with the rant. I have the original Prime, as well as the Pro version on my iPad. When I bought my first HP (25), I was amazed by its capacity. I still haven't learned how to program the Prime well, so I read every post in this forum to try and figure it out. The complaining about what it can't do or why doesn't it work differently is just noise to me.

[DA74254]

^What he said.

One should use which calc for each use. I have several different HP-flavoured calcs and I use them all. Depending on the task.
Prime is an excellent and feature full calc for the very most uses.
If I want "pure" RPN, I use my 35s or (better) the DM42. If I want RPL, I use my 49G+ or 50G, or even my good old 28s.
For math, CAS, spreadsheets, trigs, loans/investments or other day-to-day calculations, my Primes (G1 and G2) are readily at hand.

So yes, I find your post highly relevant.

[cdmackay]

Yes, good points.

I wonder if some of the backlash is more a general HP thing, e.g. based on a complaint that HP are no longer producing a high-end RPN/RPL-based engineers' calculator (other than the 35s, which might not qualify), and so the Prime takes the flak as being their flagship calculator.

I have the Prime, and I like it (and for some purposes, e.g graphing & stats confidence testing, I even find it best), but I do wish an updated 48/50 were also available, as a current product. But I doubt the market would support it.

[StephenG1CMZ]

It might help if there were a category specifically for such discussions of pros and cons of various calculators, rather than having them scattered hroughout all the calculator-specific categories.
Perhaps a section that would encourage newbies into the forum... "Which calculator is best to do this", though it could be difficult to keep it fact-based rather than opinionated.

[Tim Wessman]

Am I allowed to gripe and moan and complain about the POS developers? Because seriously, they are some lazy bastards.

[cyrille de brébisson]

Tim, what are you doing wasting your time here, GO BACK TO WORK!!! :-)

Seriously, thanks for the <RANT>, in our position, we can not really express this type of opinion as it could be seen as "client bashing", so it feels good to see someone else "taking our defense" so to speak...

Although this group tend to be pretty well behaved, some of the negative messages we read sometimes can really hurt and it takes a lot of willpower to "put on a happy face" and try to reply in a genuinely helpful way, or to not reply in a defensive or counter attacking way.

Enjoy your Prime, we certainly enjoyed creating it, even with all the constraints we had to work with.
Cyrille

[Jim Horn]

Thank you, Cyrille and Tim! While I don't yet have a Prime and seldom read this section of the forum, I look forward to getting one. That you and your team could create such tools with the drastically different culture and structure than some of us old hands recall from the "glory" days fills me with awe and admiration. Best to you always!

[Geoff Quickfall]

Good RANT!

I am a program plodder The compliant about the prime was only in the contrast of the keys. Makes it hard to use in a low light situation. That and no infrared printer capability.

I love programming the prime, the ease of computer to Prime and vice versa.

And yes, both Cyrille and Tim are “prime” individuals. Great product from a great team.

By the way, my new higher contrast Prime arrived last week from Europe. So it is back in my flight bag while I play with it.

Geoff

[Tugdual]

One shall not be confused between rant and feedback...
Rant is negative, feedback is a sign of hope.
I don’t see many people ranting here or maybe I missed something ?
Sometimes it is just a matter of expectations and clarification. You can rant for low quality and that is fair. You can expect things and get frustrated, that is clarification.
Hp has a reputation to issue amazing calculators and that is the reason we all gathered on this “hp museum” site (which is not the official hp support site by the way). Hence people may express nostalgia for the time when hp was designing calculators for engineers. Now Cyrille said in many occasions that the prime is not the offspring of that era, more an educational tool. This being clarified there is no more room for rant, just split and silence. But I will not blame people with dreams and expectations as long as it remains a gentleman discussion.

[DrD]

(04-11-2019 07:40 PM)smp Wrote:  Hi folks,

I am quite tired of all the gripes against the HP Prime here.
.
. <Gripe Content Snipped>
.
Thanks for listening...

smp

As I read your gripe against griping, I listened, hearing only ambient noise.
Calculating, programming, or bashing ... one does what one enjoys!

[pier4r]

I do agree with the rant. Although due to the Cunningham law, posting the "the prime cannot do Y" produces as result a way to do Y so those bashing are not exactly bad.

But yes, complaining only is easy.

[Eddie W. Shore]

smp,

I agree and my apologizes if I ever did that in this forum.

I enjoy all the HP calculators, each one has their strengths and challenges. No calculator, like any machine, or any process in life is perfect. I am grateful to everyone here.

If there was an "everyday" calculator for me, for me it would be the HP Prime. (Then again, I have several "everyday" calculators).

Eddie

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

I am not so sure. The HP-Prime (of which I really only know the iPad app and it's little sibling, the 39gii) is the current end result of 45 years of HP calculator evolution. The best calculator company in the world has worked for almost half a century day and night and weekend shifts and came up with the this product. Of course the expectations are high.

Everybody hopes for no less than to get his or her favorite calculator in a modernised, beefed-up version. But of course the Prime cannot deliver that. No product could. The old-time HP afficionados miss the quality of the keyboard, the second-to-none hinged keys with that tactile feedback which is just perfectly right and which never ever break. The RPL community misses RPL. The hardcore RPN fraction misses a lot of RPN functionality. Most of us who are long used to ergonomically designed products miss the ergonomy (e.g. in the hard to read key labels and the constant fiddling with Shift and Alpha keys, non-intuitive menus, display issues, you name it).

Therefore I can understand why poeple are not totally happy with this calculator. And where - if not here - would be the place to express that? Amazon or Google reviews maybe? Certainly not, everybody knows that these are either paid for or written by complete morons who are too lazy or too stupid to read a single manual page. Here we have calculator experts who will find short term solutions and workarounds for the problems and here we know that HP actually listens and contributes. Today's complaints on this forum might actually turn into product improvements in the next release of the Prime. If no one complains nothing will improve.

Regards
Max

[grsbanks]

(04-11-2019 07:40 PM)smp Wrote:  Hi folks,

I am quite tired of all the gripes against the HP Prime here.

<RANT>
{snip}
</RANT>

That is actually the kind of rant that I like to see and have been tempted to put out myself on numerous occasions. I even ended up blocking a user of this forum because it struck me that every post of theirs was a complaint about how the Prime can't do this, that or the other. People expending so much energy to find flaws in a product do get quite tedious in the end.

The Prime is a fantastic machine. I own 3 of them and I'm still on the look-out for a Rev. A. with the wishy-washy colours used just for the sake of completeness of the collection. Here too, I'm much more at ease with RPN and RPL than with HP-PPL but that doesn't detract from the fact that the Prime is still a brilliant achievement.

[Marco Polo]

(04-11-2019 07:40 PM)smp Wrote:  "My 48 whatever could do this..." "The 50 whatever could do that..." Well, the Prime is NOT a 48 whatever, or a 50 whatever. It is its own machine. If you like using your 48 or 50, terrific, go ahead and use it. Please do not gripe that the Prime is not like it.

Hi.
Despite my almost-30-years experience with HP calcs (mainly 48/50series) i am quite new to this forum.
I am in the group of people not satisfied by the Prime.
It's not a matter of feeling but i decided Prime is not for me (at the present stage of firmware development) after long playing with the emulator.
As a matter of fact Prime lacks one feature i heavily rely upon in my job: the unit of measure management and the ability to perform calculation and equation solving using units. This is enough for me to stick on 48/50 platform.
I think it is a consequence of the new operating paradigma (apps based) which makes the calculator more suitable for educational purpose or math exploration at the price of very reduced flexibility compared to 48/50 platform.

The reason i am dissatisfied of HP approach to high-end calculator is just the lack of care about engineers' needs in favour of teachers' and students'.
I can assure you that in my company (engineering company) almost all engineers use an HP calc (mostly 35s and 48 series), often coming from the university time.
Some uses old TIs (82, 83, 85), some cheap Casios.
None is using Prime or planning to buy one.....

You can call it "gripe" if you like, i just see it as lack or a professional calculator in HP product lineup.

Cheers
Marco Polo

[DA74254]

(04-12-2019 01:12 PM)grsbanks Wrote:  ... I'm still on the look-out for a Rev. A. with the wishy-washy colours ...

I might have one - located in the EU..

[grsbanks]

(04-12-2019 02:50 PM)DA74254 Wrote:  I might have one - located in the EU..

PM sent

[Thomas_Sch]

(04-11-2019 07:40 PM)smp Wrote:  Hi folks,
I am quite tired of all the gripes against the HP Prime here.
<RANT>
...
Thanks for listening...
smp

Hello smp,
many thanks for your posting and your thoughts!

I totally agree to many of your arguments.

In my opinion, the principal weaknesses of the Prime have already been sufficiently noted in recent years, but the increasing unspecific and annoying attempts to 'assemble a private desire calculator' make it increasingly difficult to identify the useful contributions to this sub-forum.

I have often considered how to ignore certain threads, but it seems necessary to address the unfocus more directly, as in your post.

Hopefully some forum users will also take note of your detailed thoughts.

[DA74254]

(04-12-2019 03:22 PM)grsbanks Wrote:  

(04-12-2019 02:50 PM)DA74254 Wrote:  I might have one - located in the EU..

PM sent

PM answered