I'm tired of all the gripes...

[Aries]

(04-11-2019 07:40 PM)smp Wrote:  Hi folks,

I am quite tired of all the gripes against the HP Prime here.

<RANT>

"My 48 whatever could do this..." "The 50 whatever could do that..." Well, the Prime is NOT a 48 whatever, or a 50 whatever. It is its own machine. If you like using your 48 or 50, terrific, go ahead and use it. Please do not gripe that the Prime is not like it.

Then there seem to be another bunch of folks who seem intent on finding *very* complex equations that the Prime "cannot solve." Most often, another smart person here will then demonstrate how to get the solution using the Prime in a different fashion. Sometimes, all that has to be said is that the Prime warned you that the solution it provided might be incorrect, so what do you want?

Folks, can we please stop all the Prime bashing?

I have no problem with folks who (like I have in the past) are simply asking how to get something accomplished with the Prime. I fully agree that the Prime manual is quite sadly way out of date, and I fervently wish that HP would publish a new, up-to-date one. Even better, I wish that any reputable publisher would publish a book describing the Prime and how to use it, just like the old days for any calculator, computer, or piece of significant software. There were always folks publishing books on how to use them.

If you don't own a Prime, but come here to complain about it, could you please refrain? What is the sense in that? It's only aggravating to others here on the Forum.

If you own a Prime but you don't like it, I guess I can understand your point. I'm sorry that you feel you wasted your money and time. But endlessly complaining about it won't really make things any different. Endlessly demanding that HP make a different calculator is quite fruitless.

Finally, if you are using the FREE virtual Prime, and come here to complain about the Prime, can you please give it up? Again, if someone is asking a valid question about how to accomplish something, that is what this Forum is for. Ask away. But, once again, working hard to find some obscure or complex equation that fails in a certain manner, and quite often can be handled a different way just seems to me to be a waste of your time and energy, and it's quite tedious to others here.

Yes, I have the latest G2 version Prime, purchased from overseas, risking a warrantee issue (but there have been none). I have owned the original version with the low contrast colors, as well as the updated version with the higher contrast colors. I use only the Home side of the Prime. I have written some programs for my Prime, and I've shared some here in the library. I'm not a great programmer - many others here are far, far better than me. Many times I still use my 41CL because RPN is easier for me to bang out some quick calculations. I would have loved to have RPN as in the 41 in the Prime, but I understand the market that HP is selling the Prime to, and those are the breaks.

</RANT>

I am not a troll. I am not attempting to start any sort of flame war. I finally got up enough gumption to say my piece. I will not answer any responses, because I have stated how I feel. Moderators, if this breaks the rules here, please feel free to erase this post.

Thanks for listening...

smp

Pathetic …

[grsbanks]

(04-13-2019 09:18 AM)Aries Wrote:  Pathetic …

You might want to qualify exactly what it is that you're labelling pathetic. It is not clear at all. Is it the whining that smp is bemoaning or is it smp's post itself? It's ambiguous and it makes a big difference!

[pier4r]

(04-13-2019 09:18 AM)Aries Wrote:  Pathetic …

Such posts with winks help no one. That's just trolling and provocating. The OP at least put some effort writing some words, even if it is a rant.

Please refrain next time.

[chromos]

When I signed up to this forums, there were many people here who shared their ideas and examples or even finalized solutions what can be made with Prime. Now, these guys are almost gone. And, it seems they are replaced by people who only complain what can't be solved with Prime.

Where are you, you old good guys?

[Erik P]

Complaining about HP Prime may be a way to make it better. Furthermore there are not that many alternative calculators from hp anymore. Hp48sx, hp48gx and hp50g are outdated and slow compared to HP Prime and you can't buy them new (unless from obscure places on the net, and hp is not producing them anymore). They were however very nice calculators even though some of the functionality of hp48sx was more or less useless because the calculator was so slow. I guess many want some of the functionality of the hp48 series but combined with the speed, the colors and the new functionality from HP Prime. Can you blame them?
If we could take the best from hp prime and combine it with the best from the hp48 series we would get an excellent calculator.
Sadly, we will probably never see that calculator since HP Prime and the calculators from the hp48 series have different target markets.

[pier4r]

(04-29-2019 09:43 AM)Erik P Wrote:  I guess many

The reality is "few". Many use notebooks, only few (compared to the then target audience for the hp 48) would use the prime even if it would have the RPL capabilities (and the funny part is that the prime is fully capable, people just don't want to learn new things).

Also another reason for the 48 series for professional was the availability of commercial and free programs. Only reproducing the RPL there is not enough as people would ask "yes but then I miss the application X! It is incomplete". There is always room for unreasonable complains.

[Dirk.nl]

SMP, thanks for starting this threat!

Pier4r, I totally agree with you!

The HP Prime is a very good and fast calculator, you first have to understand how it works. In other words; the philosophy behind it.
The modern HPPL programming package is very good, you learn to use it very quickly. The most important, I think personally, is the input instruction (a kind of HMI).
Although the HP Prime was probably initially developed for students, this calculator can be used very well by engineers.

General advice; try to use the HP Prime as developed by HP!

Minor remarks.
1)
The IOS HP Prime Pro app crashes too much. It is a pity that HP does not want to give any comments about this, but it will have to do with claims (I think).
It’s not importent for me anymore because I have deleted the HP Prime Pro app.
2)
In my opinion bug repairs could become available a little faster. Like with various apps for my iPad.

All in all, the HP Prime is a great product, especially the G2.
Thanks to the Prime development team!

[Androsynth]

I'm new here, but I've seen a lot of negativity on the web about this calculator as well.

To my mind, it's sort of a hybrid of the Casio and HP lines. It has the nice menus and easy to use programming language that the casio graphing calcs have, only it's a hell of a lot more powerful.

What it's not is an update of the 50g. And that's the main bone of contention, I think. I think a lot of people are disappointed that RPN seems to be a relic of the past now. As a (very) late convert to RPN I can absolutely see that, but honestly, the Prime is a great little machine. It's fast, powerful, has a great interface, and it's not just something your kid is gonna use in school. It's got some very clever design features.

While the 50g and DM42 are probably my favorites, this is the goto calc for anything needing graphing. As someone who is re-learning math as an adult, it's a great study aid as well. And the built in language is surprisingly powerful stuff.

So, count me in as another fan.

[freelanzr]

I too can agree with the OP's sentiments.

I consider the HP Prime an amazing, modern device that has evolved capabilities (CAS, storage, connectivity, graphing, programming) well beyond that of a traditional 'calculator'... to the point that, in my mind, I consider it much more suitable as a math/science focused educational tool rather than one designed specifically for engineering support.

And I do not fault the designers for that; it is a perfectly reasonable evolution to me, and is the best among it's competitors, in just about every aspect.

Pick the right tool for the job. I prefer the simpler interface and capabilities of a good basic/mid level scientific calculator to fill the engineering support role, where as the more complex calculations and analysis is better performed (also documented and shared) by dedicated SW.

That said, it is rather frustrating that modern scientific calculators do not compare in terms of industrial design, quality, feel, and overall usability to the those of the previous generations.
Which is why the old models are still able to command such high resale value in the used markets.

[John Keith]

(05-11-2019 12:53 AM)freelanzr Wrote:  That said, it is rather frustrating that modern scientific calculators do not compare in terms of industrial design, quality, feel, and overall usability to the those of the previous generations.

That is mainly due to economies of scale. The market for high quality professional class calculators is tiny compared to the market for smart phones, etc. One may also note that in today's dollars the cost of a high-end classic calculator such as the HP-65 or 67 is equivalent to the cost of a fully loaded high-end laptop. If there was a significant market for calculators costing $2000 or so, such calculators would be available.

[dan_h]

My only gripe is that I want to buy the G2 from a US vendor and not from overseas or what may be a grey market source.

[jebem]

(05-11-2019 03:18 PM)dan_h Wrote:  My only gripe is that I want to buy the G2 from a US vendor and not from overseas or what may be a grey market source.

Apparently even in some European countries no one is able to find a local store selling the HP Prime, be it old or new generation.

The only HP models one can find in my country are the 10S and the 300S if you are lucky, and only at FNAC stores that may as well accept orders for the 12C.

However one can easily find local stores selling basic and high end Casio and Texas models because these brands have a large customer base in the pupils in almost every school around Europe.

This clearly is HP marketing decisions to force customers to order online, so people go to eBay or Amazon to get what they need.
In the end you get no warranty or get a limited one year warranty in clear violation of European Union rules.

Internet business are global these days, i know, but that happens mainly because the big corporations saw that as a way to cut costs at all cost.
People are not machines.
People need to feel safe when buying something, knowing that any issue will be fast and efficiently handled by another human being in a front desk, and not spending hours on the phone talking to a machine and talking to a call center 5000 miles away that will ask you to return the goods which forces you to pack the damn thing and travel to a post office to do what the shop should be doing for you in first place.

And this is my 2 cents of Euro. .

[rprosperi]

(05-11-2019 05:54 PM)jebem Wrote:  People need to feel safe when buying something, knowing that any issue will be fast and efficiently handled by another human being in a front desk, and not spending hours on the phone talking to a machine and talking to a call center 5000 miles away that will ask you to return the goods which forces you to pack the damn thing and travel to a post office to do what the shop should be doing for you in first place.

Sadly, it's not even that easy. HP marks all product pkg. (and same info is encoded in the s/n) to indicate what market it was intended for (USA, Europe, Latin America, etc.) and the warranty for that product can only be handled by customer/technical support in that market; further, most of those will only help you if you can verify (sales receipt?) that you also purchased the product within that market as well.

So, folks buying grey market here in USA (there are units destined for Latin America for sale on eBay, now from/for USA market) and also those buying from the several UK-based e-tailers, have no warranty or technical support options. The good news is the Prime is very well made and reliable and it appears that extremely few units have failed and/or need warranty care/exchange.

So, as in many, many other instances, it's really not a global economy, but rather several local economies that can instantly see what each other can buy, but can't also buy those items under the same terms. The only option we have as consumers is to notify the Mfr. of our displeasure and then not buy products that are treated this way, to let the Mfrs. know it's not acceptable. But of course that won't happen in the markets where the product is currently available, because it is currently available there and local folks there see no problem.

Of course HP is hardly the only Mfr. that does this; if anything it's becoming more and more common in more product category areas and everywhere around the world.

and

[grsbanks]

(05-11-2019 10:01 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  The only option we have as consumers is to notify the Mfr. of our displeasure and then not buy products that are treated this way, to let the Mfrs. know it's not acceptable.

Us: Hey, HP, this is a disgrace that the Prime is not available in the US. I'm not buying one!

HP: Well, we're not selling it in the US anyway, so your point is...…?

[TheKaneB]

I switched from not liking the Prime to loving it, so I'll add my (not requested) opinion on the matter!

I have the first revision and I went through all the firmware updates, including one that changed the bootloader and made it difficult for me to upgrade. Some nice guy from HP helped me resolve the issue on this forum!

At first I didn't like the Financial app and I missed the 3D Graphing. They beefed up the Financial app and they also added a very nice 3D Graphing App that solved those issues.
I also didn't like the touch gestures because you couldn't pinch to zoom. Now you can pinch to zoom in 1 or 2 axis depending on the direction of the pinch, and the scrolling is much smoother!
The first revisions were buggy and crashed often. Now it's been a few months without crashes, and I see that as a win.
The software support for Mac was lacking, now I have a fully functional software for Mac and I don't have to use my Windows virtual machine to upgrade the firmware, another win here.
All in all I think the platform has grown and matured to a point that I find fully satisfactory for my needs and tastes.
The "washed out" colors on the keys, I know the second hardware version has better contrast but I find the old washed out colors more elegant even though they are less readable. I use my calculator on the desk with proper illumination so I rarely have readability issues with that and I don't feel the pressure to upgrade to the G2.

Also, as a software guy, I have a soft spot for the HPPL which I really like! writing software for it feels very natural to me. The only other language that would capture my interest would be Python. It would be great to have proper full Python on the calculator, the Numworks looks tempting for this reason but I don't like that calculator so much, it looks good for programming but not that great for everyday use.

That's all based on my personal taste and experience so your mileage may vary, as they say

Antonio

[compsystems]

Quote:...It would be great to have proper full Python on the calculator

+1, uPython is great

[Zaphod]

(04-12-2019 01:12 PM)grsbanks Wrote:  I own 3 of them and I'm still on the look-out for a Rev. A. with the wishy-washy colours used just for the sake of completeness of the collection.

Holds hand up, make me an offer - pm

I bought mine very very early, when the firmware was not really ready.... and I never really took to it, probably because of this.

[freelanzr]

(05-11-2019 01:17 PM)John Keith Wrote:  That is mainly due to economies of scale. ... If there was a significant market for calculators costing $2000 or so, such calculators would be available.

I completely agree and understand why these devices are not being made with the same quality today - the market simply will not support it.

At the same time, I understand the frustration of 'They just don't make them like they used to...'

And I do try not to let that nostalgia affect my opinions and reviews.
Actually, there are a few modern HP calcs that I think offer unmatched (among competitors) value and quality, and the first among them for me is the HP Prime.
As a Systems and former HW engineer, I am truly impressed at what has been achieved for the retail cost.

The 35s and 10bii+ also have decent value, and have at least retained some measure of the sturdiness and key feel that is lacking in most modern 'disposable' designs.

[grsbanks]

(05-13-2019 08:10 PM)Zaphod Wrote:  

(04-12-2019 01:12 PM)grsbanks Wrote:  I own 3 of them and I'm still on the look-out for a Rev. A. with the wishy-washy colours used just for the sake of completeness of the collection.

Holds hand up, make me an offer - pm

Sorry but you're a bit too late. I now have one sold to me last month by a forum member in one of the Baltic states.

[TheLastMillennial]

Sorry I'm a bit late on this, but I'd like to understand something, bear with me as I try to make it not sound as if I'm being rude. So I've been writing a review (more like an essay at this point) about my HP Prime G2. I completely agree the HP Prime under normal school use is a fantastic machine and is completely unmatched in terms of specs. From what I've seen and experienced, the only thing that's being griped about (besides the LCD panel) is things on the software. Looking at the suggestions page it's clear that the people developing the OS and apps at HP aren't able to keep up with the long list of features many are requesting. I'm not saying that the developers are doing nothing, that much is clear. However, some suggestions such as an undo/redo feature have been around since the original Prime was released or a 3D parametric grapher which seems like it should already be a built-in feature for a calculator like this. I understand some of the requested features are difficult to implement but after all these years there's been nothing released to even sort-of satisfy these old requests and missing features.
This brings me to the developers. I saw Tim's post

(04-12-2019 01:30 AM)Tim Wessman Wrote:  Am I allowed to gripe and moan and complain about the POS developers? Because seriously, they are some lazy bastards.

I'm not quite sure if he's joking or the devs really are that bad. If they are that bad, why does HP keep them? If they're not actually lazy, why are features taking so long to be developed? I guess my real question is: what's the HP Prime team like? Is it too small to be effective, unmotivated, working on behind-the-scenes things, or lazy? I find it hard to believe that the team is unmotivated or just lazy, at least the HP people posting here seem to be great people. This is why I'd like to understand what's going on with the team in general.

Hopefully this didn't sound like I'm bashing the whole HP team. Your responses will really help me finish my review. Thanks!