newRPL - Updated to build 1510 [official build remains at 1487]

[jonmoore]

The downside of the 39gs as newRPL hardware is that the key configuration/layout is significantly different to the 50g and newRPL does share commonalities with the 50g layout.

Unfortunately, 50g's have started to go up in price (last year you could still pick one up for approx $50). Not sure whether it's a supply and demand scenario pushing the 50g up in price or eBay profiteers holding out for higher prices, but the non 50g ARM models are the only ones that make sense these days (as newRPL hardware), unless you're willing to pay a premium.

With specific regard to the 39+, this is listed as compatible on the newRPL docs site:



https://newrpl.wiki.hpgcc3.org/doku.php?...stallation

[rprosperi]

Thanks for the correction and reliable info.

Who woulda thought of reading the documentation??? From the above disucssion, it was easy to assume this had been reviewed, but assuming is often silly.

Seems to imply all these machines are essentially "the same" on the inside, except of course the smaller screen on the 48gII.

[SammysHP]

(05-06-2022 12:12 PM)jonmoore Wrote:  Unfortunately, 50g's have started to go up in price (last year you could still pick one up for approx $50). Not sure whether it's a supply and demand scenario pushing the 50g up in price or eBay profiteers holding out for higher prices, but the non 50g ARM models are the only ones that make sense these days (as newRPL hardware), unless you're willing to pay a premium.

Not only the 50g – a while ago you could get the (rejected?) 39gs from AliExpress for only $10-15, now it's more like $30-40! I should have bought more while they were inexpensive.

[Eric Rechlin]

(05-06-2022 12:25 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Thanks for the correction and reliable info.

Who woulda thought of reading the documentation??? From the above disucssion, it was easy to assume this had been reviewed, but assuming is often silly.

Seems to imply all these machines are essentially "the same" on the inside, except of course the smaller screen on the 48gII.

Of course the 39g+, 39gs, and 40gs also share that smaller screen with the 48gII.

I think there are actually quite a few other small differences, aside from the minor difference in CPU clocking between some of the models.

For example, memory and ROM sizes differ too. As I recall, the first generation (with 3 batteries) of the 48gII had substantially less memory, and for some reason I think it did not have flash ROM, so that may not be a newRPL conversion candidate either. And I wonder if the 39g+ fell into the same category, since it was a contemporary of it -- are you sure the 39g+ has a flash ROM? Or might it, like the original 48gII, not allow upgrades?

(Also, I think the 39g+ was sold for a lot more than 18 months before the 39gs replaced it; if I had to guess I'd say it was over 2 years and possibly closer to 3. I believe the 39g+ came out about the same time as the 49g+ and original 48gII in late 2003, and I think the 39gs/40gs came out about the same time as the 50g and second generation 48gII in mid 2006.)

[rprosperi]

(05-06-2022 02:25 PM)Eric Rechlin Wrote:  

(05-06-2022 12:25 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Thanks for the correction and reliable info.

Who woulda thought of reading the documentation??? From the above disucssion, it was easy to assume this had been reviewed, but assuming is often silly.

Seems to imply all these machines are essentially "the same" on the inside, except of course the smaller screen on the 48gII.

Of course the 39g+, 39gs, and 40gs also share that smaller screen with the 48gII.

I think there are actually quite a few other small differences, aside from the minor difference in CPU clocking between some of the models.

For example, memory and ROM sizes differ too. As I recall, the first generation (with 3 batteries) of the 48gII had substantially less memory, and for some reason I think it did not have flash ROM, so that may not be a newRPL conversion candidate either. And I wonder if the 39g+ fell into the same category, since it was a contemporary of it -- are you sure the 39g+ has a flash ROM? Or might it, like the original 48gII, not allow upgrades?

(Also, I think the 39g+ was sold for a lot more than 18 months before the 39gs replaced it; if I had to guess I'd say it was over 2 years and possibly closer to 3. I believe the 39g+ came out about the same time as the 49g+ and original 48gII in late 2003, and I think the 39gs/40gs came out about the same time as the 50g and second generation 48gII in mid 2006.)

Indeed, my note should have included all those other small screen models; I have read that the ROM detects the LCD size at startup and used what it found, but clearly that's speculation...

The early 48gII had only 128KB RAM, the later version had 256KB. Specs I see online (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_49%2F50_series and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_39%2F40_series) indicate all these models had Flash (vs. true ROM) but I don't recall that there were any ROM updates released or means to do so for the 39g+ and 48gII. The 39gs/40gs definitely did, pretty sure I've done that (and yes, I see them on hpcalc, )

For sales windows, the 39g+ was introduced Jan 2004, disco in Jan 2007, while the 39gs was introduced in Aug 2006, so I presumed sales of the 39g+ pretty much dropped like a rock after those ~30 months, despite it being officially not discontinued for several more months. Your right though, I did some bad math there skipping a year, anyone got a calculator?

It's hard to say what the actual sales window was though as there were essentially no formal end-of-life dates announced for machines this late in the game, they just sorta went away, if you were paying close attention to HP's website, etc.

[Kevin Ouellet]

Thanks for all the information everyone! I guess I was misled by the doc about the 39g+ supporting NewRPL, but given how uncommon this calculator seems to be and how fast it got replaced by the 39gs I can totally understand that the doc was written this way. I got my 39g+ on Ebay for $7 a few weeks ago and my 39gs as well for $20 (although the 39g+ costed $20 shipping) and I find myself using the former more often than the 39gs but I guess I'll use the 39gs instead for NewRPL.

[spiff72]

A bit off topic from the 39gs discussion, but has there been any progress or advancement in the development of newRPL for the Prime (G1)?

I am trying to decide if it is worth searching for a used G1 (I have a G2 currently) to dedicate to newRPL...

[Claudio L.]

(05-16-2022 12:05 PM)spiff72 Wrote:  A bit off topic from the 39gs discussion, but has there been any progress or advancement in the development of newRPL for the Prime (G1)?

I am trying to decide if it is worth searching for a used G1 (I have a G2 currently) to dedicate to newRPL...

Very little time to spare lately... newRPL development has slowed to a crawl. Touchscreen drivers are working for all models of the Prime G1 (turns out different hardware revisions had 2 different touchscreen chipsets, who knew...).
So now it can recognize up to 2 fingers... last time I touched the code I was trying to figure out what to do with touch... other than touching the on-screen menu items which is the obvious choice.

[Claudio L.]

(05-06-2022 06:59 PM)Kevin Ouellet Wrote:  Thanks for all the information everyone! I guess I was misled by the doc about the 39g+ supporting NewRPL, but given how uncommon this calculator seems to be and how fast it got replaced by the 39gs I can totally understand that the doc was written this way. I got my 39g+ on Ebay for $7 a few weeks ago and my 39gs as well for $20 (although the 39g+ costed $20 shipping) and I find myself using the former more often than the 39gs but I guess I'll use the 39gs instead for NewRPL.

As far as I understand, the only difference between the 39g+ and 39gs is that it has 4 batteries, and a keyboard that doesn't break. Same as the difference between the 49g+ and the 50g.

[erazor]

(05-16-2022 12:05 PM)spiff72 Wrote:  I am trying to decide if it is worth searching for a used G1 (I have a G2 currently) to dedicate to newRPL...

You don't need to "dedicate" a G1 to newRPL because you can have both the Prime OS and newRPL at the same time and switch between them on reset. But atm there is just no permanent storage available for newRPL data...

[jonmoore]

(05-27-2022 05:59 AM)Claudio L. Wrote:  

(05-06-2022 06:59 PM)Kevin Ouellet Wrote:  Thanks for all the information everyone! I guess I was misled by the doc about the 39g+ supporting NewRPL, but given how uncommon this calculator seems to be and how fast it got replaced by the 39gs I can totally understand that the doc was written this way. I got my 39g+ on Ebay for $7 a few weeks ago and my 39gs as well for $20 (although the 39g+ costed $20 shipping) and I find myself using the former more often than the 39gs but I guess I'll use the 39gs instead for NewRPL.

As far as I understand, the only difference between the 39g+ and 39gs is that it has 4 batteries, and a keyboard that doesn't break. Same as the difference between the 49g+ and the 50g.

And that's more than enough reason to avoid (speaking as one who was initially burned by being an early adopter to the 49+).

[spiff72]

(05-27-2022 05:48 AM)Claudio L. Wrote:  

(05-16-2022 12:05 PM)spiff72 Wrote:  A bit off topic from the 39gs discussion, but has there been any progress or advancement in the development of newRPL for the Prime (G1)?

I am trying to decide if it is worth searching for a used G1 (I have a G2 currently) to dedicate to newRPL...

Very little time to spare lately... newRPL development has slowed to a crawl. Touchscreen drivers are working for all models of the Prime G1 (turns out different hardware revisions had 2 different touchscreen chipsets, who knew...).
So now it can recognize up to 2 fingers... last time I touched the code I was trying to figure out what to do with touch... other than touching the on-screen menu items which is the obvious choice.

I have my eye on a G1 Rev C - is the newRPL implementation usable right now for the Prime? Or should I just wait? I need another calc like I need a hole in my head :-)

[Claudio L.]

(06-01-2022 02:12 PM)spiff72 Wrote:  I have my eye on a G1 Rev C - is the newRPL implementation usable right now for the Prime? Or should I just wait? I need another calc like I need a hole in my head :-)

It's very usable with a few caveats:
* There's no automatic data persistence across reboots. If you reset your calc, or you let it run out of battery, or you switch to PrimeOS (through a reboot) you'll lose any data that wasn't backed up.
* You may of course back up via USB (fully functional at this point with newRPL Desktop).
* Alternatively, you may back up to SD card. There's no SD card, but there's access to the FAT partition within the HP Prime. This may change in the future since it's dangerous to overwrite or delete any PrimeOS files in there, and FAT is NOT flash friendly, so it will cause uneven wear on your flash. For the time being, it's OK to store a backup every now and then, but use sporadically to extend the life of your flash.
* There's a slow battery drain while the calc is off. There's something somewhere consuming a small amount of power, so be careful if you leave it for many days without checking the battery level.

[spiff72]

(06-01-2022 04:31 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  

(06-01-2022 02:12 PM)spiff72 Wrote:  I have my eye on a G1 Rev C - is the newRPL implementation usable right now for the Prime? Or should I just wait? I need another calc like I need a hole in my head :-)

It's very usable with a few caveats:
* There's no automatic data persistence across reboots. If you reset your calc, or you let it run out of battery, or you switch to PrimeOS (through a reboot) you'll lose any data that wasn't backed up.
* You may of course back up via USB (fully functional at this point with newRPL Desktop).
* Alternatively, you may back up to SD card. There's no SD card, but there's access to the FAT partition within the HP Prime. This may change in the future since it's dangerous to overwrite or delete any PrimeOS files in there, and FAT is NOT flash friendly, so it will cause uneven wear on your flash. For the time being, it's OK to store a backup every now and then, but use sporadically to extend the life of your flash.
* There's a slow battery drain while the calc is off. There's something somewhere consuming a small amount of power, so be careful if you leave it for many days without checking the battery level.

OK - just got a Prime G1 in the mail today, and I got newRPL installed.

Is there a keyboard map images of any kind for the Prime KB? I can't figure out how to turn off the calc! I know the STO key is now the VARS key, but I am looking for something that helps me map out the other keys (perhaps to make a KB overlay in the future, which was super-helpful when I converted my 50g).

Thanks!

[spiff72]

(06-04-2022 06:30 PM)spiff72 Wrote:  

(06-01-2022 04:31 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  It's very usable with a few caveats:
* There's no automatic data persistence across reboots. If you reset your calc, or you let it run out of battery, or you switch to PrimeOS (through a reboot) you'll lose any data that wasn't backed up.
* You may of course back up via USB (fully functional at this point with newRPL Desktop).
* Alternatively, you may back up to SD card. There's no SD card, but there's access to the FAT partition within the HP Prime. This may change in the future since it's dangerous to overwrite or delete any PrimeOS files in there, and FAT is NOT flash friendly, so it will cause uneven wear on your flash. For the time being, it's OK to store a backup every now and then, but use sporadically to extend the life of your flash.
* There's a slow battery drain while the calc is off. There's something somewhere consuming a small amount of power, so be careful if you leave it for many days without checking the battery level.

OK - just got a Prime G1 in the mail today, and I got newRPL installed.

Is there a keyboard map images of any kind for the Prime KB? I can't figure out how to turn off the calc! I know the STO key is now the VARS key, but I am looking for something that helps me map out the other keys (perhaps to make a KB overlay in the future, which was super-helpful when I converted my 50g).

Thanks!

UPDATE:
I went back in this thread and found that I actually discussed a lot of this previously (about a year ago), including a KB map image I put together! My memory is failing me as I age ;-)

Here is that image:
https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/attachment.php?aid=9689

I still have one open question - how do you turn the calc OFF? I feel like I am missing something incredibly obvious!

[spiff72]

One other question about the Prime implementation of newRPL...

As mentioned earlier, I installed it on my G1, but I had to revert the stock firmware on it to an older version (dated 2020 01 16), for reasons unrelated to newRPL (I found that the WAIT(-1) command doesn't work properly on the latest firmware for G1, so I loaded the old version. I tested it for that WAIT(-1) command problem and the older firmware works as it should.

However, when I went through the process of installing newRPL (using the firmware bundler to modify that older firmware version, everything went OK, but when I press ON-Symb followed by Esc, the screen blanks out and doesn't come back with the message about clearing RAM.

I wasn't sure I installed it right so I tried again and same result. I had been poking the RESET button to get out of that state, but it occurred to me to just press the Symb button (which I knew how to do from previously installed firmware where the message worked). This actually got me into newRPL!

So my question - would it make sense that the screen would flash and then go black with the above older firmware version?

I can live with it this way, but just wanted to make sure there wasn't some other issue to be aware of with the 2020 01 16 FW version.

Thanks!

[spiff72]

Sorry for all the questions lately - and if the dev is busy that's totally OK.

For the Prime G1 implementation of newRPL:
- Is there a way to power off the calc, or do you just have to wait until it powers off automatically?
- Why are decimals values shown with a decimal as the separator, AND at the end of the number on the stack?
- I have experienced a graphics glitch several times since installing it on my Rev C hardware. This happens when it is powered down, and I press the On key to turn it on. The screen will be flickering and dark, and I can't get out of it without poking the reset button on the back. I would try turning it off and back on, but I don't think there is a button for this (see first question). I haven't left it in this condition long enough to see if it powers down automatically. It is still operational when in this state, but the screen looks bad. See this video for example: https://youtube.com/shorts/GPUZUKkSK2U

Thanks

[erazor]

Quote:- Is there a way to power off the calc, or do you just have to wait until it powers off automatically?

Actual versions use ESC-Hold and ON. It powers off after you release the ESC key.

[spiff72]

(06-14-2022 07:49 PM)erazor Wrote:  

Quote:- Is there a way to power off the calc, or do you just have to wait until it powers off automatically?

Actual versions use ESC-Hold and ON. It powers off after you release the ESC key.

Thanks for the response - I figured I was missing SOMETHING here! I will try that later tonight...

[The Shadow]

The dot at the end of the number means it's not an exact value.