What does the shading around some 48 series keys indicate?

[Orome]

What is the reason for the shading around the digit and right shift keys on the 48G, 48GX, and 48G+?

Why for example, does it apply to [UNITS], as opposed to, say [CHARS] [MODES], or [MEMORY] (or even [STACK])? The latter all provide applications, for example, while, [UNITS] does not (at least not one that behaves the way the others do).

What does the shading around some 48 series keys indicate?

[rprosperi]

(04-18-2020 05:39 PM)Orome Wrote:  What does the shading around some 48 series keys indicate?

Those keys, with only RS- (aqua) shift labels are applications, typically with unique UI, often a pop-up menu, etc. Each of these applications also have a series of soft-menus, accessed by LS- (purple), which are not listed on the keyboards; since they are related to the applications, there is no need to add another (purple) label. The shading under these keys is to remind you both that they are applications and also have associated menus.

Note that CHARS, MODES and MEMORY are similar (special Apps and associated menus) but don't include the shading, probably to avoid obscuring the Alpha labels.

But c'mon, this is explained on page 4 of the manual. Please give it a try to lookup simple questions in the manual, and save Forum questions for those that need background, insight, history, etc.

[Orome]

(04-18-2020 06:02 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  ...this is explained on page 4 of the manual.

No, it's not. In fact reading that is precisely what prompted the question, which is about seeking background, insight, or history about why the shading is omitted on 4 of the 12 applications and present on a non-application.

(04-18-2020 06:02 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  But c'mon, ... Please give it a try to lookup simple questions in the manual, and save Forum questions for those that need background, insight, history, etc.

Nice.

[Joe Horn]

I've always wondered the same thing, so I'm glad you asked. One possible hint at the thinking of the designers can be found in the 48G Series Quick Start Guide, which has three diffeernt names for the above right-shifted keys:

(1) Right-shift CHARS is called "The CHARS feature" on page 2-7 and 2-8.
(2) Right-shift MODES, MEMORY, and STACK are called "Utility Environments" on pages 2-14 and 2-15. Left-shift EDIT is also included in that set.
(3) Right-shift 1 through 9 (including UNITS!) are called "Application Environments" on pages 2-12 through 2-14.

So it would SEEM that the designers put the light green shading around the right-shift key and the 1 through 9 keys to highlight the officially-named "Application Environments". IMHO it seems strange to call the UNITS menu an "environment", since it uses the ordinary stack display's "outer loop", but hey, at least the keyboard shading agrees with the Quick Start Guide.

[acoto]

I never liked much that shadowing.

I suspect was there to show "Advanced" applications on the HP 48G

You may like this article

https://web.archive.org/web/201512180231...ug94a1.pdf

Where authors explain Design, fundamentals and a lot of internal details of HP 48G/GX.

AC

[Orome]

(04-18-2020 06:52 PM)Joe Horn Wrote:  (1) Right-shift CHARS is called "The CHARS feature" on page 2-7 and 2-8.
(2) Right-shift MODES, MEMORY, and STACK are called "Utility Environments" on pages 2-14 and 2-15. Left-shift EDIT is also included in that set.
(3) Right-shift 1 through 9 (including UNITS!) are called "Application Environments" on pages 2-12 through 2-14.

Yeah, that's an odd taxonomy, and doesn't quite match the list of "Applications" in the section on Applications and Command Menus, where UNITS is omitted. But as you point out, at least it corresponds to the keyboard.

(04-18-2020 06:52 PM)Joe Horn Wrote:  So it would SEEM that the designers put the light green shading around the right-shift key and the 1 through 9 keys to highlight the officially-named "Application Environments".

I think you've got it!

[Orome]

(04-18-2020 07:10 PM)acoto Wrote:  I suspect was there to show "Advanced" applications on the HP 48G

It looks like that was the intent. The highlights do sort of correspond to "applications" in something like the sense of a feature package, while others are closer to generic calculator features.

(04-18-2020 07:10 PM)acoto Wrote:  I never liked much that shadowing.

Nor have I, but now that I see the (likely) intent, I'm less baffled by it, at least.

[rprosperi]

(04-18-2020 06:09 PM)Orome Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 06:02 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  ...this is explained on page 4 of the manual.

No, it's not. In fact reading that is precisely what prompted the question, which is about seeking background, insight, or history about why the shading is omitted on 4 of the 12 applications and present on a non-application.

Well, technically you are correct. The section "Organization of the Keyboard" begins on page 1-4 of the User's Guide, while the section "Applications and Command Menus" is on page 1-6; this explains "Keys that have only labels printed in green represent applications". It does not address the shaded background per-se, but it's clear the shade is intended to make the applications stand out from the normal function assignments.

Interestingly, of the 13 keys with only green labels, it defines only 12 of those as applications; UNITS is not included in the list of applications. I think the intention was to use the shading to list all applications, but including it on only a few key of the top row would look wonky and obscure the letter characters below in white.

[Orome]

(04-18-2020 06:52 PM)Joe Horn Wrote:  IMHO it seems strange to call the UNITS menu an "environment", since it uses the ordinary stack display's "outer loop",...

Also, [PICTURE] and [VIEW] are purple and not called “applications” even though they act like “applications” (normally shaded aqua).

All in all both the shading and the taxonomy (two different taxonomies actually: Quick Start vs Manual) seem a bit of a failed exercise that looks like it was quickly abandoned. E.g., Pioneers simply add dark backgrounds to anything that's going to produce a menu, and the 35s doesn't even bother. IMV the 48 series would have been improved by taking either of those approaches.

[Csaba Tizedes]

(04-18-2020 05:39 PM)Orome Wrote:  What is the reason for the shading around the digit and right shift keys on the 48G, 48GX, and 48G+?

I suggest study the 48SX and HP32SII "era" of HP, these two calculators which was the first in some fields and they had a clear idea behind these things.

I prefer the SX version because not included the user interface things which are too slow on the GX machines. In the SX manuals and 32SII manuals you can find some information:

   

Cs.

[Orome]

(04-21-2020 06:32 AM)Csaba Tizedes Wrote:  In the ... 32SII manuals you can find some information...

Yes that's what I was referring to when I said "Pioneers simply add dark backgrounds to anything that's going to produce a menu". That is consistent and makes sense.

The confusion is that the shading on the 48G, 48GX, and 48G+ is orthogonal to the behavior of the commands (some shaded keys behave differently from shaded ones, and more like unshaded ones). E.g. [UNITS] and [LIBRARY] are shaded but don't bring up modal applications, while [MEMORY], [MODES], [CHARS], and even [STACK] do bring up modal applications but aren't shaded. (Not to mention that there are two distinct flavors of modal applications, e.g., [PLOT] vs [STAT] and even those are mixed between shaded and non shaded.)

[Orome]

(04-21-2020 06:32 AM)Csaba Tizedes Wrote:  I suggest study the 48SX ...

While the Ss has the advantage highlighting more of the cases where a menu or something like an application or environment will appear, it too is inconsistent (e.g., [GRAPH]) about that. Arguably things are a bit better with the Ss because fewer of the applications/environments require explicit dismissal with [ON] (as nearly all do in the Gs), which is really what one ought to be warned about; but even then the Ss manage to be inconsistent on that count as well (e.g. [GRAPH] is about as modal and heavyweight as they come, but it's not highlighted).

[Orome]

Interestingly, HP-48 Insights also has trouble assigning any consistent meaning to the shading, getting only as far as categorizing SOLVE, PLOT, SYMBOLIC, TIME, STAT, and (strangely), UNITS as "problem-solving resources", and then trailing off on the rest.

[rprosperi]

Seems to me that the internal fighting among the dev. team about the 48GX keyboard layout was not settled when the day came to freeze the layout for manufacturing. Despite the additional features available in the GX, I prefer the SX layout for sure, but I admit the speed, extra memory and features of the GX draw me to use it more often...

[Orome]

(04-30-2020 11:10 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Seems to me that the internal fighting among the dev. team about the 48GX keyboard layout was not settled when the day came to freeze the layout for manufacturing.

Yeah, it sees like something like that happened, at least with regard to the shading. I'd love to know the history.

Most of the layout though is pretty rational and sophisticated. (48 Insights covers it well in section 4.2.) And the apps are more mature and consistent in how they behave than on the S and SX. In fact that's is one of the reasons that inconsistency of the shading stands out so clearly on the G, GX, and G+. On the S and SX the inconsistency isn't so clear, because the apps aren't so fully developed.

[Jake Schwartz]

(04-30-2020 11:10 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Seems to me that the internal fighting among the dev. team about the 48GX keyboard layout was not settled when the day came to freeze the layout for manufacturing....

Indeed, at the 1994 Dutch HP conference, HP's Diana Byrne (HP48G-series software team leader) talked about the internal "keyboard wars" before releasing the 48GX. I believe that Bill Wickes used the same term when presenting the 48SX, three years earlier.

Jake

[franz.b]

(05-01-2020 06:57 PM)Jake Schwartz Wrote:  Indeed, at the 1994 Dutch HP conference, HP's Diana Byrne (HP48G-series software team leader) talked about the internal "keyboard wars" before releasing the 48GX. I believe that Bill Wickes used the same term when presenting the 48SX, three years earlier.

Jake

Has there been a global thermonuclear war for the 50g keyboard?
...already lost since 49g ...

[rprosperi]

(05-01-2020 06:57 PM)Jake Schwartz Wrote:  

(04-30-2020 11:10 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Seems to me that the internal fighting among the dev. team about the 48GX keyboard layout was not settled when the day came to freeze the layout for manufacturing....

Indeed, at the 1994 Dutch HP conference, HP's Diana Byrne (HP48G-series software team leader) talked about the internal "keyboard wars" before releasing the 48GX. I believe that Bill Wickes used the same term when presenting the 48SX, three years earlier.

Jake

I sat through (i.e. vigorously participated in) many myself when I was at Sharp around the same time. Until you've been scarred in these meetings yourself, you would never believe the wildly different ideas folks can have and the passion levels that are... exposed... while presenting them.

The key to good design decision-making is to always remain open to new and better ideas, no matter how long it took to win the last skirmish. Some of the Engineers and Product Planning team from Japan were the best I've ever met at remaining open to new, well thought-out arguments for improvements. Right up until the day before cut-off for manufacturing. Very few of the products like these ever had 'finished' keyboard layouts... but you gotta ship them, and can 'fix' the issues in the next version...