HP should offer a free hardware upgrade

[Joe Horn]

Warning: This is a rant, written in anger. If unbiased pleasantries are what you came here for, press Back now.

I haven't been this ticked off since 1979. Then it was at Radio Shack. Now it's at HP.

Unless I misunderstand the US Federal Trade Commission, every purchaser of any product which "fails of its essential purpose" is entitled to a complete refund or replacement with a working product, even after the warranty expires. The wording is important; it does not refer to products that STOP working, but only those that NEVER do what they were SOLD to do. Since every Prime with rev A hardware (HP part number NW...) is totally unable to do what it was sold to do (wireless communication), the FTC says that you have the right to demand either a full refund of your money, or replacement of your Prime with a rev B machine... even after the 1-year warranty expires.

In simple terms, if a company sells you a lemon, then you never really received what you paid for, so they have no right to receive (or keep) your money. That's why this is often referred to as a "lemon law".

Example: In 1979 I bought a TRS-80 Model II with an external "Disk Expansion Unit" containing three 8-inch floppy drives. The expansion unit never worked correctly, so I took it in for repair. After a long time I got it back... and it still didn't work correctly, so I brought it back again for repair. After 4 iterations of this annoying and lengthy procedure, I finally gave up and asked for my money back. They said, "No, it's out of warranty. Sorry." I asked for the manager, and told him that the expansion unit failed of its essential purpose. He recognized the phrase immediately, and refunded my money without hesitation.

So either HP should publicly announce a free rev A / rev B swap (as they did for the HP-35 back in the day), or warn HP Legal that a class action lawsuit is brewing. I do not know HP's legal obligations to customers outside the USA, but I know what their moral obligation is.

Edit: The current FTC Uniform Commercial Code, Section 2-608 and following, uses the phrase "substantially impaired" to refer to lemons.

[HP67]

It has certainly put their retailers in a bad situation also. I saw marketing materials and advertisements today on major retail sites that tout the wireless connectivity and they are selling the NW units, so...

"Houston, I think we have a problem."

and

"What we have here, is a failure to communicate." Wirelessly, that is.

I guess if Toyota and GM can recall a few hundred thousand units, then HP can too.

[Michael de Estrada]

IDK, and I'm no lawyer, but this just seems to be another case of "specifications subject to change without notice." Anyways, nowhere on the packaging for my Prime do I see any mention of wireless communication capability.

[spinkham]

I'm curious to know if anyone has tried simply asking HP about this issue yet.

[Katie Wasserman]

Other than the famous HP35 bug notice and offer to fix them for free has there ever been a calculator recall?

While I think it would be great if HP did this for the rev A the Prime they might open themselves up to a GM-like need to recall dozens of calculators made in the past 10 years or more. Think of all those bugs that we collectively (in these fora) have found. Certainly problems like missed keystrokes and losing memory because of a non-functional low battery warning could be construed as "fails of its essential purpose".

Even if they don't issue a recall I foresee the potential of hundreds of phone calls to HP support using these magic works. Joe, thanks for bringing this to our attention!

[Thomas Radtke]

(06-02-2014 04:51 PM)Katie Wasserman Wrote:  Other than the famous HP35 bug notice and offer to fix them for free has there ever been a calculator recall?

Message #6:

http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/...read=44064

[Alberto Candel]

The CONTENTS specified in back of the box of my HP Prime list two USB cables, one for PC to unit, and one for unit to unit. This one was not included in my box (in no box actually). There was an insert in the User Guide stating to ignore all unit to unit communication, but that does not cover the missing cable. So HP missed something.

[Michael de Estrada]

(06-02-2014 05:09 PM)Alberto Candel Wrote:  The CONTENTS specified in back of the box of my HP Prime list two USB cables, one for PC to unit, and one for unit to unit. This one was not included in my box (in no box actually). There was an insert in the User Guide stating to ignore all unit to unit communication, but that does not cover the missing cable. So HP missed something.

When you say "box", do you mean the blister pack ? Mine says "WHAT'S INSIDE", not "CONTENTS" and it only shows a symbolic representation of one USB to micro USB cable for PC to Prime connection.

[toml_12953]

(06-02-2014 03:34 PM)HP67 Wrote:  I guess if Toyota and GM can recall a few hundred thousand units, then HP can too.

Yeah, but if a GM or Toyota product fails, people can die. If your calculator won't communicate wirelessly, what's the worst that can happen? We have to keep this in perspective....

[Alberto Candel]

(06-02-2014 05:30 PM)Michael de Estrada Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 05:09 PM)Alberto Candel Wrote:  The CONTENTS specified in back of the box of my HP Prime list two USB cables, one for PC to unit, and one for unit to unit. This one was not included in my box (in no box actually). There was an insert in the User Guide stating to ignore all unit to unit communication, but that does not cover the missing cable. So HP missed something.

When you say "box", do you mean the blister pack ? Mine says "WHAT'S INSIDE", not "CONTENTS" and it only shows a symbolic representation of one USB to micro USB cable for PC to Prime connection.

Yes, that is what I mean (I took a look at it last night, but now I was talking from memory). Mine shows two symbols: a USB and a microUSB.

[Michael de Estrada]

(06-02-2014 05:53 PM)Alberto Candel Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 05:30 PM)Michael de Estrada Wrote:  When you say "box", do you mean the blister pack ? Mine says "WHAT'S INSIDE", not "CONTENTS" and it only shows a symbolic representation of one USB to micro USB cable for PC to Prime connection.

Yes, that is what I mean (I took a look at it last night, but now I was talking from memory). Mine shows two symbols: a USB and a microUSB.

That is just the representation of the two ends of a single cable, which is the one that connects the Prime to your PC USB port. If a second cable for direct connection between two Primes were provided, it would be shown as an additional micro A to micro B USB cable.

[Alberto Candel]

(06-02-2014 06:29 PM)Michael de Estrada Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 05:53 PM)Alberto Candel Wrote:  Yes, that is what I mean (I took a look at it last night, but now I was talking from memory). Mine shows two symbols: a USB and a microUSB.

That is just the representation of the two ends of a single cable, which is the one that connects the Prime to your PC USB port. If a second cable for direct connection between two Primes were provided, it would be shown as an additional micro A to micro B USB cable.

Well, from my point of view, that is open to interpretations.

[Eddie W. Shore]

Correct me if I am wrong, but we need to have an adaptor to access the wireless features of the HP Prime?

Past Thread on MOHPC about the subject:
http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/...ead=242583

Here is a video showing that an adaptor is required, shown in the first 10 seconds of the video:
http://youtu.be/toIAm3tANFg

Are the adapters themselves not working?

[Katie Wasserman]

(06-02-2014 04:57 PM)Thomas Radtke Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:51 PM)Katie Wasserman Wrote:  Other than the famous HP35 bug notice and offer to fix them for free has there ever been a calculator recall?

Message #6:

http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/...read=44064

I forgot about that one, the 32sii being my favorite everyday use calculator I should have known. HP put a ton of engineering into the 32s/ii as well as the 35 (and a lot of other machines back in the day) and didn't want their reputation to be tarnished by bugs. That certainly doens't seem to be the case anymore for the most part. I've got a bunch of recent vintage HP calculators just sitting around not being used because I don't trust them to work when I need them to.

[Miguel Toro]

(06-02-2014 07:26 PM)Eddie W. Shore Wrote:  Correct me if I am wrong, but we need to have an adaptor to access the wireless features of the HP Prime?

Past Thread on MOHPC about the subject:
http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/...ead=242583

Here is a video showing that an adaptor is required, shown in the first 10 seconds of the video:
http://youtu.be/toIAm3tANFg

Are the adapters themselves not working?

If I understand correctly, the ability to use this adapter has been disable by software, on Revision A hardware updated with the recent firmware. Perhaps for some reason (of course it is just a guess), the chipset to handle wireless, calc-to-calc communication and so on, is not up to the task and HP had to change it?

Regards,

Miguel

[Craig Thomas]

Hi Joe;

Large corporation, original engineer founders long gone, bean counters in charge, 50,000 layoffs announced, loyalty to customers looooooooooooooonnnng gone.

We were lucky to get the current firmware upgrade.

Still, I never mind being proven too cynical.

(06-02-2014 03:09 PM)Joe Horn Wrote:  ....

In simple terms, if a company sells you a lemon, then you never really received what you paid for, so they have no right to receive (or keep) your money. That's why this is often referred to as a "lemon law".

.....

So either HP should publicly announce a free rev A / rev B swap (as they did for the HP-35 back in the day), or warn HP Legal that a class action lawsuit is brewing. I do not know HP's legal obligations to customers outside the USA, but I know what their moral obligation is.

Edit: The current FTC Uniform Commercial Code, Section 2-608 and following, uses the phrase "substantially impaired" to refer to lemons.

[jgreenb2]

This thread seems a little overwrought...it's just a calculator.

[Joe Horn]

(06-03-2014 02:11 AM)jgreenb2 Wrote:  This thread seems a little overwrought...it's just a calculator.

True! No need for histrionics. Just calmly tell HP to replace your substantially impaired Prime with one that supports the optional wireless communication that they so clearly advertised, with YouTube videos and presentations at multiple conferences and even on their own website. They will calmly replace it (or should). All's well that ends well.

Just a calculator? If I were to post "Hey, calm down, it's just $150 down the drain, no big deal"... everybody would go nuts. Yes, it's just a calculator, but paying twice to get one good Prime? Uh... no.

Prolepsis: HP will undoubtedly say that those who don't need wireless communication ability should keep their rev A hardware. Not true! That assumes that nobody will ever sell their Prime. Buyers will pay more for used rev B Primes than for used rev A Primes (at least until rev A becomes rare enough). When I buy a Prime, I'd be crazy not to demand rev B, because even if I don't need wireless communication, the next owner might.

[Namir]

Perhaps HP can distribute (free of charge) HP Prime Rev B at HHC2014???!! That would be the start of kissing and making up.

:-)

Namir

[Dougggg]

thinking about all the issues with the new firmware version. Could it be the new firmware was tested on a version B and worked perfectly