HP 19C Spring loaded Thingy?

[DavidRicchetti]

Okay it's official... I'm a nerd.

I finally added a 19C to my collection. It's a beautiful thing; I've been fondling it all day... don't go there! One question, I've flipped through the User's Manual but I don't see any mention of the spring-loaded, flip-out gizmo in the upper right-hand corner of the calculator case. Can anyone tell me what it is?

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(06-15-2020 08:41 PM)DavidRicchetti Wrote:  Okay it's official... I'm a nerd.

I finally added a 19C to my collection. It's a beautiful thing; I've been fondling it all day... don't go there! One question, I've flipped through the User's Manual but I don't see any mention of the spring-loaded, flip-out gizmo in the upper right-hand corner of the calculator case. Can anyone tell me what it is?

It's for securing it to the desk via a cable.

[rprosperi]

And note that I've read that not all 19Cs have that; though mine does, as do the others I've owned but are now gone. While not 100% certain, I'd guess that they removed it to save cost, rather than added it to prevent theft.

So, there you go... there's another version you have to locate and acquire.

Does anyone here have a 19C without the security tab?

[DavidRicchetti]

I'm relieved to have that mystery solved; It's been twisting my noodle since I opened the box.

I'm glad that I got the one with the quirky security whatchamacallit.

Many thanks!

[Joe Horn]

(06-15-2020 10:19 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  And note that I've read that not all 19Cs have that; though mine does, as do the others I've owned but are now gone. While not 100% certain, I'd guess that they removed it to save cost, rather than added it to prevent theft.

So, there you go... there's another version you have to locate and acquire.

Does anyone here have a 19C without the security tab?

Yes, neither of my 19C's have that tab, or at least I can't find it. Their serial numbers are 1712A00717 and 1801A01385. One of them I received from you, Bob! I don't know which one, though.

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(06-15-2020 10:19 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  And note that I've read that not all 19Cs have that; though mine does, as do the others I've owned but are now gone. While not 100% certain, I'd guess that they removed it to save cost, rather than added it to prevent theft.

So, there you go... there's another version you have to locate and acquire.

Does anyone here have a 19C without the security tab?

Hi Bob, I think that actually it went the other way around. Just picked up from the pile a couple of 19C: 1801S and 1905S, both with the hook. Then I checked another couple of 10(A): 1808S with the hook and 1711S without.

:)

[ignazio]

Hi, my 19C (1805S11622) with hook, and my 10A (1712s01855) without.
Regards

[rprosperi]

Well... I was wrong and I was wrong....

@Joe - That one I owned for a very brief time, and I clearly didn't get to know it very well. I stand corrected.

My units:

HP-19C: 1711A with hook
HP-10: 1804S without hook

So here's the units reported thus far:

HP-10:
1711S without
1712S without
1802S with hook
1804S without
1808S with

HP-19C:
1711A with
1712A without
1801A without
1801S without
1801S with
1802S without
1804S without
1805S with
1905S with
1905S with


I believe (always risky...) the 10 and 19C shared a common chassis, so it would make sense they both had the hook added at about the same time. The units listed above seem to show the addition took place in early 1978, except for my 19C. I don't think my unit is a frankencalc (e.g. with base from earlier unit) as the hook mounting seems to affect both case halves. Seems to be a confusing history!

Also, it appears possible that units with-hook, or indeed the HP-10 were not produced in USA. Let's find out...

Does anyone here have:

A 19C made in USA with the hook?

A 10 made in USA (please note with/without hook)?

(edited to add Panamatik's machines)

[PANAMATIK]

More HP-10 HP-19C models

HP-19C 1801S11184 without hook
HP-19C 1802S13251 without hook
HP-10 1802S13987 with hook
HP-19C 1804S11507 without hook
HP-19C 1905S10327 with hook

My early models without hook, later models with hook, with probability of 0.5

Bernhard

[Massimo Gnerucci]

With or without...

[rprosperi]

Thanks for the machine info Bernhard.

Thanks for the good tune Massimo.

Production history is getting less clear, and more interesting...

[aurelio]

Actually, after the whole read, I've not yet understood the criterium for justify the presence or less of the hook, it doesn't seems to be an upgrade, nor a downgrade

I just can say that I never seen a 10c or 19c from live, even at the times when they were for sale in the shops..

[rprosperi]

When the 19C came out in 1977, it cost $345, which is about $1,460 today. As these were popular and highly sought after, many of them were stolen, e.g. when left on an Engineer's desk overnight. As these were somewhat larger than most handheld machines, they often were not carried home in a briefcase, but left in the office.

HP either reacted to hearing about it this, or possibly even anticipated it, and they released the Security Cradles you've no doubt seen for the 65/67, Classic and Woodstock machines; the cradle locks around the calculator and each cradle has a place to mount a steel cable, which could be looped around a nearby workbench fixture or table leg, etc. to prevent the machine from 'growing legs'.

The 19C and 10A were high-end models and so they needed similar protection, however because they have paper bays which need to be flipped open to refill the paper roll, the original style cradle (which totally enclose the machine except for the keyboard and screen) could not be used, so HP integrated a retractable 'hook' to which one could attach a security cable.

[teenix]

(06-16-2020 09:45 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  As these were popular and highly sought after, many of them were stolen, e.g. when left on an Engineer's desk overnight.

HP either reacted to hearing about it this, or possibly even anticipated it

Or figured it out because of increased charger purchases :-)

cheers

Tony

[rprosperi]

(06-16-2020 11:16 PM)teenix Wrote:  

(06-16-2020 09:45 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  As these were popular and highly sought after, many of them were stolen, e.g. when left on an Engineer's desk overnight.

HP either reacted to hearing about it this, or possibly even anticipated it

Or figured it out because of increased charger purchases :-)

cheers

Tony

That would be clever of them. And clever of you to suggest it... and... hey wait a minute... where did that thought come from? Unless... nah, never mind...

[teenix]

(06-17-2020 12:25 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  

(06-16-2020 11:16 PM)teenix Wrote:  Or figured it out because of increased charger purchases :-)

cheers

Tony

That would be clever of them. And clever of you to suggest it... and... hey wait a minute... where did that thought come from? Unless... nah, never mind...

That would be a sad case indeed. Just in case I need to prove my case, and case in point, I don't have a calculator charger at all, nor a case to put it in. In that case, I rest my case. :-)

cheers

Tony

[rprosperi]

A very solid case!

Case closed!

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(06-16-2020 09:45 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  The 19C and 10A were high-end models and so they needed similar protection, however because they have paper bays which need to be flipped open to refill the paper roll, the original style cradle (which totally enclose the machine except for the keyboard and screen) could not be used, so HP integrated a retractable 'hook' to which one could attach a security cable.

And Topcats had it, too.

[[kby]]

(06-16-2020 01:28 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  …I don't think my unit is a frankencalc (e.g. with base from earlier unit) as the hook mounting seems to affect both case halves…

This isn’t definitive. The plastic molding of the lower case is not affected as the pivot the security tab attaches to in the case is the pillar that the screw on that side enters from the lower case (under the rubber foot) to hold the lower and upper cases together. This is not altered. The upper case, on the other hand, is modified to include the small cutout for the security tab. Unfortunately, the serial number is on the lower case half (which contains the tab, but it can be removed; see below) and the actual case mod is on the upper case half.

Now, to make matters more complicated, I’ve found the method by which the actual security tab and its associated spring (which, in my very limited experience of only two machines, are identical in all cases) is not always the same.The actual security tab and its spring fits loosely on the post (so that it can freely rotate), but I have seen this secured vertically on the post by (1) a very tightly friction-fit washer or (2) a proper, but not tightly fitting brass eyelet (vaguely funnel shaped; if you can image a funnel in which the wider top part is flat rather than sloped, so in profile it looks kind of “T” shaped) that is high enough to keep the tab properly aligned when the case is fit together. The second case is very easy to transplant between lower cases. The first is possible as well, but is much riskier and seems to leave scratches on the post if removed or added (but maybe there’s a clever way to do it which won’t).

In my anecdotal observational experience, “S” models seem more likely to have the tab than “A” models, but it is not 100% on either side and may be just a fluke of small numbers of cases.

[Edit: I've been thinking again and realizing my description of the attachments wasn't quite right. There is a washer involved probably in both cases, but the one that I thought was friction fit was described wrong. It wasn't the washer that was tightly friction fit, it was a very thick (maybe ~0.5–1mm?) external C-clip that kept things held down. I can't remember for sure (and I don't want to take apart the machine) whether the other implementation had a washer, but it is likely that it did.]