TAS has made the market less transparent

[John Ioannidis]

One benefit of TAS is that it provides data on what an acceptable market price is.

If a seller just has "Buy It Now" and they fail to sell, at least we know that that price was too high.

Recently (at least I only noticed it a couple of months ago) they added a "make an offer" feature, which, at the end of the sale, does not disclose the amount paid if the offer was accepted.

Case in point: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-9815A-Calcula...1349132519

The asking price of $750 was clearly ridiculous; 9815Ss with no defects have traditionally gone for a lot less, but there is no way of knowing what the price was.

I'm not an expert on auctions or what the theory behind setting various kinds of auctions is (despite having worked at Google!), but it seems to me that something is fishy with this new way of doing auctions.

Comments?

[bhtooefr]

When I view the item, I'm seeing "Sold for: $600".

[John Ioannidis]

Are you either the seller or the buyer?

I don't see a "sold for" anywhere on that page.

Who would pay $600 for a non-pristine 9815A? Maybe I should start selling my 9815S units.

[bhtooefr]

Interesting, the eBay mobile site appears to be showing things that the desktop site doesn't.

No, I'm not either party to the transaction, and I wasn't even aware of that item before (so no cookies would have set anywhere to show me the price).

[Mark Hardman]

(06-09-2014 06:55 PM)bhtooefr Wrote:  Interesting, the eBay mobile site appears to be showing things that the desktop site doesn't.

Is it possible that you have an older version of eBay Mobile? My version on the iPad suppresses the actual selling price.

This question has been asked several times in the eBay forums. Here's the typical answer:

Can I find what an item marked "best offer accepted" sold for?

I agree with John that the policy is "fishy".

[Mark Hardman]

(06-09-2014 06:55 PM)bhtooefr Wrote:  the eBay mobile site appears to be showing things that the desktop site doesn't.

Sorry, I misread your post.

You are correct. Accessing the auction via m.ebay.com on a mobile device does give the actually selling price. Thank you for the excellent tip!

[John R]

(06-09-2014 06:22 PM)John Ioannidis Wrote:  Recently (at least I only noticed it a couple of months ago) they added a "make an offer" feature, which, at the end of the sale, does not disclose the amount paid if the offer was accepted.

...

I'm not an expert on auctions or what the theory behind setting various kinds of auctions is (despite having worked at Google!), but it seems to me that something is fishy with this new way of doing auctions.

Comments?

This feature has been present on TAS for at least the last year, though I can't vouch for its presence earlier than that. Also, for whatever technical, lexical, or legal reason, TAS makes a distinction between "auction" listings -- in which the bids and selling price are both transparent -- and "fixed price" listings, in which negotiations between seller and buyer, as well as the final sale price, are obfuscated.

[HP67]

(06-09-2014 06:22 PM)John Ioannidis Wrote:  One benefit of TAS is that it provides data on what an acceptable market price is.

Sure, you can get some idea from there, but I think for hobbyist stuff in many areas it's probably not accurate. There are mailing lists and forums where people are giving away stuff or trading with people who really want to use it, or selling it at sane prices. Most of that never gets to ebay at all. By the time somebody posts something on ebay it's either they have no idea what it is and have no personal interest in it, or they tried to sell it to people on a list or forum and nobody wanted it.

What winds up on ebay is usually not from people heavily into this or that hobby, but people who just want to make a buck. I have nothing against making a buck. But I think a lot of people are making a business at the expense of a dwindling supply of tech stuff and that is not good. And the scrappers are getting a lot of perfectly good hardware and turning it into a few grams of gold. We will never see that stuff again. That's kind of sad.

[Katie Wasserman]

(06-10-2014 07:44 AM)HP67 Wrote:  What winds up on ebay is usually not from people heavily into this or that hobby, but people who just want to make a buck.

Yes and no. There are at least a couple of regulars on this forum that buy and sell calculators on ebay, apparently making their living that way. (Given the volume I see, it must take up most of their time.) The people I have in mind got their start on this forum and that led them to ebay and to buying and selling.

Without trying to be judgmental on this topic, I do think that this activity has pushed up the perceived values of most (all?) HP calculators and many other brands significantly. It potentially makes what we all have at least some of more valuable but it makes it harder to acquire. One could look at this as the maturing of a fledgling collectable hobby or the demise of an experimental one.

[John R]

(06-10-2014 03:26 PM)Katie Wasserman Wrote:  Without trying to be judgmental on this topic, I do think that this activity has pushed up the perceived values of most (all?) HP calculators and many other brands significantly. It potentially makes what we all have at least some of more valuable but it makes it harder to acquire. One could look at this as the maturing of a fledgling collectable hobby or the demise of an experimental one.

From the perspective of somebody who is a relative latecomer to HP collecting, TAS has actually made it significantly EASIER to acquire a collection, albeit more expensive per acquisition. TAS is a clearinghouse for all kinds of buyers and sellers; some care only about making a buck, while some have a genuine interest in (or even love for) the things they buy and sell. Whatever their motivations, the volume of calculators sold on TAS is easily hundreds of times the volume sold here and in other forums -- which means that it provides hundreds of times more opportunities to acquire various models or parts that would otherwise be effectively unavailable to a newcomer. It would be orders of magnitude more difficult to build up a sizable collection from scratch without TAS (or something like it).

(As with Katie, there is no intent here for judgment, and hopefully no implicit judgment is inferred.)

[rprosperi]

(06-10-2014 05:34 PM)John R Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 03:26 PM)Katie Wasserman Wrote:  Without trying to be judgmental on this topic, I do think that this activity has pushed up the perceived values of most (all?) HP calculators and many other brands significantly. It potentially makes what we all have at least some of more valuable but it makes it harder to acquire. One could look at this as the maturing of a fledgling collectable hobby or the demise of an experimental one.

From the perspective of somebody who is a relative latecomer to HP collecting, TAS has actually made it significantly EASIER to acquire a collection, albeit more expensive per acquisition. TAS is a clearinghouse for all kinds of buyers and sellers; some care only about making a buck, while some have a genuine interest in (or even love for) the things they buy and sell. Whatever their motivations, the volume of calculators sold on TAS is easily hundreds of times the volume sold here and in other forums -- which means that it provides hundreds of times more opportunities to acquire various models or parts that would otherwise be effectively unavailable to a newcomer. It would be orders of magnitude more difficult to build up a sizable collection from scratch without TAS (or something like it).

(As with Katie, there is no intent here for judgment, and hopefully no implicit judgment is inferred.)

IANAL but, are you?

Just kidding about the bottom comment; it sounds kinda legal like this is what you do. But I must say I completely agree with you; eBay has dramatically extended the reach and coverage of countless products that would otherwise remain unavailable to most folks. I've been able to locate and purchase LOTS of things (including yes, non-calculator things) related to old products both for repair and sentimental reasons.

And while it is completely correct that eBay can be guilty of driving up prices for things you may find cheaper at a yard sale or in the MoHPC Classifieds, at least it's an option to get the thing you want, should it not be at that yard sale.

Also, it's a tremendously useful resource to find out details about all manner of things. Quick, what's the part number of the LCD inverter on an HP Pavilion dv6030? it's much faster to find on eBay than on HP's part surfer website/store...

[John R]

(06-11-2014 01:21 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  IANAL but, are you?

No, I'm not -- I'm an engineer through and through. But I've learned from experience that the intended tone of my emails and other all-text messages is prone to misinterpretation, so I thought I would defuse any perceived ill will at the source.

[jracca]

I buy and sell all the time on TAS, I would in many cases just prefer to trade, but there really is no mechanism for that, as I have in several cases sold and bought HP calculator stuff from the same people.

I also will buy a large lot of stuff and sell what I don't want just to keep a single piece that I am interested in. Given the choice between getting less money and getting more money, I will take more.....