FRAM71 : Threads, Articles, Presentations, Manuals, etc.

[Sylvain Cote]

With the new FRAM71B production batch coming soon, I thought it will be nice for new users to have a reference thread for their new module.

Information has been moved to the Articles Forum here → FRAM71 : Threads, Articles, Presentations, Manuals, etc..

Comments and/or suggestions about that page are welcome in this thread.

Thanks!

Sylvain

[charger73]

Thank you Sylvain. For me very useful.

Tobie

[grsbanks]

Thanks, Sylvain, very useful!

Would it be an idea to post this again in the "Articles" forum?

[rprosperi]

Excellent!! Very useful, and clearly will come in handy.

Thanks Sylvain, very generous of you to create and share this.

[Massimo Gnerucci]

THANK YOU!
Waiting for my FRAM and already know it will be a long way before I will (finally) fully appreciate the 71B.

[twoweims]

Thank You, Sylvain.

I am so looking forward to getting my FRAM71B. I have been trying to read everything that I can get my hands on in anticipation. This provides us a ones to shop for this.

I can't wait to have real hardware that is configured like my EMU71.

[hpchris]

Thanks!

[dmh]

Has anyone successfully tested FRAM71 on ROM 1AAAA?

TIA, dmh

[dmh]

Can someone please clarify if any IL module works with FRAM71/B or must it be ROM 1B as section 4.3 of the manual (incompatibilities) mentions inability to upgrade IL module but it's not clear to me whether 1A also works (with FRAM71/B).

TIA, dmh

[Hans Brueggemann]

all HP-IL module versions do work correctly w/ FRAM71(B).
that chapter is just saying that the HP-IL module's ROM (as opposed to the HP-71B's SYSTEM ROM) can't be upgraded to later versions by FRAM71(B). this is owing to the internal architecture of the HP-IL module.

[Sylvain Cote]

(01-16-2021 09:06 AM)dmh Wrote:  Can someone please clarify if any IL module works with FRAM71/B or must it be ROM 1B as section 4.3 of the manual (incompatibilities) mentions inability to upgrade IL module but it's not clear to me whether 1A also works (with FRAM71/B).

Yes it works, the manual only says that although it is possible to upgrade the 71B system ROMs with the SYSRAM feature (ex: 1BBBB to 2CDCC) it is not possible to upgrade the HP-IL ROM in the same way (ex: 1A stay 1A)

[Sylvain Cote]

(01-16-2021 08:35 AM)dmh Wrote:  Has anyone successfully tested FRAM71 on ROM 1AAAA?

I think I have tried it successfully several years ago but my memory is failing me.
Anyway, I am updating the FRAM71 Configuration Example this weekend to support FRAM71B, I will test it at the same time and report back the result here.
In any case, Robert, Dave or Hans may have a better memory and confirm it sooner.

[rprosperi]

(01-16-2021 12:59 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 08:35 AM)dmh Wrote:  Has anyone successfully tested FRAM71 on ROM 1AAAA?

I think I have tried it successfully several years ago but my memory is failing me.
Anyway, I am updating the FRAM71 Configuration Example this weekend to support FRAM71B, I will test it at the same time and report back the result here.
In any case, Robert, Dave or Hans may have a better memory and confirm it sooner.

I recall (I think...) running FRAM71B with the 1AAAA ROM installed in FRAM (with takeover jumper in port-1) and saw no problems other than the bugs in 1AAAA, but never tried using a FRAM71B module in a 1AAAA machine, as I (still!) don't have one.

If you do have one, and would consider swapping that old, troublesome early ROM 71B for a modern, updated 71B with shiny new ROMs, please drop me an email.

[J-F Garnier]

(01-16-2021 12:50 PM)Hans Brueggemann Wrote:  [...] the HP-IL module's ROM (as opposed to the HP-71B's SYSTEM ROM) can't be upgraded to later versions by FRAM71(B). this is owing to the internal architecture of the HP-IL module.

Actually, it is possible to upgrade a HP-IL module 1A - more precisely override with the newer version 1B. The newer ROM version (1B) must be installed together with the JPC ROM and placed before the JPC ROM in port order. It can then be checked in the VER$ that the HPIL:1B appears before the HPIL:1A and thus takes precedence. The reason why it works is too long to explain here and is not the subject of this thread.

It is also possible to do it without the JPC ROM, by moving the HP-IL module to port 6 (yes, 6!), this requires an electric modification of the HP-71B board, see here. I did it just to check it works but would not recommend this method.

Anyway, the best solution is to find a module 1B, they are quite common and not too expensive, and this avoids the problems of some modules 1A with the PIL-Box (these problems come from electric/firmware differences of some modules 1A, not from the ROM version).

J-F

[Dave Frederickson]

(01-16-2021 02:53 PM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  Anyway, the best solution is to find a module 1B, they are quite common and not too expensive, and this avoids the problems of some modules 1A with the PIL-Box (these problems come from electric/firmware differences of some modules 1A, not from the ROM version).

Here's a nice 1B HP-IL module in-box.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Complete-Boxed-...4648901764

How do I kow it's a 1B? The date code is 8919 which makes it the latest HP-IL module we've tracked. 1B modules appeared around date code 8603.

Dave

[rprosperi]

(01-16-2021 08:01 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  How do I kow it's a 1B? The date code is 8919 which makes it the latest HP-IL module we've tracked. 1B modules appeared around date code 8603.

Dave

To be pedantic, I have a 1B dated 8923 which I guess I acquired since we last synced notes.

Anybody got an HP-IL module from 1990?

[dmh]

(01-16-2021 02:52 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  I recall (I think...) running FRAM71B with the 1AAAA ROM installed in FRAM (with takeover jumper in port-1) and saw no problems other than the bugs in 1AAAA, but never tried using a FRAM71B module in a 1AAAA machine, as I (still!) don't have one.

If you do have one, and would consider swapping that old, troublesome early ROM 71B for a modern, updated 71B with shiny new ROMs, please drop me an email.

Why do you want a 1AAAA? Doesn't it have the battery drain issue?

I assume the hardware is identical?

Or do you want the whole set ?

[Howard Owen]

I imagine 1AAAA machines are rare. I've never seen an HP71B eBay auction that called out that version. (Some auctions omit the ROM revision, of course.) With a FRAM71, you can have your collector's cake and feed the enthusiast too.

(01-17-2021 10:27 AM)dmh Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 02:52 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  I recall (I think...) running FRAM71B with the 1AAAA ROM installed in FRAM (with takeover jumper in port-1) and saw no problems other than the bugs in 1AAAA, but never tried using a FRAM71B module in a 1AAAA machine, as I (still!) don't have one.

If you do have one, and would consider swapping that old, troublesome early ROM 71B for a modern, updated 71B with shiny new ROMs, please drop me an email.

Why do you want a 1AAAA? Doesn't it have the battery drain issue?

I assume the hardware is identical?

Or do you want the whole set ?

[Sylvain Cote]

Sorry Robert, I had to answer that one.

(01-17-2021 10:27 AM)dmh Wrote:  Why do you want a 1AAAA?

Why not.

(01-17-2021 10:27 AM)dmh Wrote:  Doesn't it have the battery drain issue?

Yep!

(01-17-2021 10:27 AM)dmh Wrote:  I assume the hardware is identical?

To my knowledge, yes.

(01-17-2021 10:27 AM)dmh Wrote:  Or do you want the whole set ?

Now you are talking, it is called the collector sickness.

[J-F Garnier]

(01-17-2021 11:23 AM)Howard Owen Wrote:  I imagine 1AAAA machines are rare. I've never seen an HP71B eBay auction that called out that version. (Some auctions omit the ROM revision, of course.)

The ROM was quickly updated to 1BBBB, less than two months later according to the internal ROM timestamp, but enough 1AAAA versions may have been built and sold because HP released a specific addendum for the 1AAAA problems (and the standby battery drain problem is not mentioned).

J-F