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Howard Owen · 07-14-2016, 08:31 PM

(07-14-2016 08:25 PM)Ángel Martin Wrote: Well, sure enough those scenarios are unnerving but usually they're never taking into consideration to that level of ramification. Decisions and choices are tough enough already!

What about the main point? Does free information get tainted if it takes money to free it from slavery? Would you refuse to look at anything Matthias made available to the world if he got paid to do it?

Howard Owen · 07-14-2016, 08:49 PM

(07-14-2016 05:40 PM)Accutron Wrote: The copyright claim itself and the request to not freely redistribute the files are assertions of presumed rights.

This non-lawyer agrees that the claim of copyright is probably unenforceable. I'm guessing that nobody is going to sue to try. I'm happy to buy Dave's DVD's (and USB key.) I've done so multiple times in order to help support his efforts in collecting all those scans and for this site. If the copyright claim didn't dissuade from copying the contents of that DVD, a concern for undermining the site would.

There's law, and there's the right thing to do. Sometimes they don't line up.

HP-Collection · 07-14-2016, 09:12 PM

(07-14-2016 07:55 PM)hbo Wrote:
(07-14-2016 05:11 AM)Ángel Martin Wrote: ...then are those members under a contractual obligation NOT to share them either... also to

I wouldn't participate in such an effort either. I clearly stated that I would expect those bit patterns to be considered free to copy (absent any other copyright claim) and I wouldn't go along with a deal that didn't explicitly include a provision stating that.

Maybe my offer way not clear enough: For a up-to-define refund the images would be free to anyone, not only the "buyer".
Even some of you do not want to understand my position I DO NOT WANT TO MAKE PROFIT, I only want to get back a small amount for my investment. Thats why I call it a refund and not a sale.
The thing with the copyright is another discussion. I think, Ángel is mainly interested in playing with the images for future projects. Again and again: I accept your point of view and would like to share, BUT you do not accept my point of view as I read (sorry, this is not against Ángel personaly but for all members blames me in previous postings). I do not believe that further mutual accusations will help us finding a compromise.

Dave Frederickson · 07-14-2016, 10:22 PM

(07-14-2016 09:12 PM)HP-Collection Wrote: Maybe my offer way not clear enough: For a up-to-define refund the images would be free to anyone, not only the "buyer".
Even some of you do not want to understand my position I DO NOT WANT TO MAKE PROFIT, I only want to get back a small amount for my investment. Thats why I call it a refund and not a sale.

I think we're getting closer. Matthias, I believe what you're asking for is "compensation", not a refund, which goes to the buyer, not the seller.

In any case, you still have not offered up a sale price. So until you do, or change your view, I believe negotiations have come to a halt.

Dave

Howard Owen · 07-14-2016, 10:32 PM

(07-14-2016 10:22 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote: In any case, you still have not offered up a sale price. So until you do, or change your view, I believe negotiations have come to a halt.

If questions of price are to be discussed, I suggest we move the discussion to the classified forum, or else to private email. I'd prefer the former for transparency's sake, but whatever works.

Dave Frederickson · 07-14-2016, 11:21 PM

I think the solution is for Matthias to have to cough up a ROM image every time he poses a question to the forum, like this one. Smile

After all, it takes time to type a response, and time is money.

John R · 07-14-2016, 11:25 PM

Regarding copyrights and the scans on the Museum DVD, it is worth pointing out that Dave sought and received permission from HP to redistribute the materials on the DVD. See this link for more info (as well as another discussion of copyrights).

**Gene** · 07-15-2016, 12:11 AM

(07-13-2016 12:49 PM)Gene Wrote: As to new projects :-) I would still like to see a couple of things:

1) Please find a fairly required .rom (such as the PowerCL, OSX3, etc.) to add INC and DEC as standard operating system functions. It is so nice not to have to do ISG X and add a NOP afterward. Is there any room anywhere in a rom most of us will always have plugged in to add these two short functions? :-)

and

2) I would still love to see the .raw files for the HP 67 games that have already been converted into HP 41 equivalents that are free for the downloading here on MoHPC put into a .rom with the card reader 7XXX functions. These are games that have no equivalent in the 41CL at present. I'm not talking about yet another blackjack :-) but games with no HP 41 option today.

Food for thought and a wink. ;-)

Angel, don't forget my pleas here for a couple of new projects. :-)

Accutron · 07-15-2016, 01:36 AM

(07-14-2016 11:25 PM)John R Wrote: Regarding copyrights and the scans on the Museum DVD, it is worth pointing out that Dave sought and received permission from HP to redistribute the materials on the DVD. See this link for more info (as well as another discussion of copyrights).

I'm aware that HP granted permission to redistribute the documents. In fact, at one point they granted global permission to anybody to redistribute obsolete manuals, for free or for money. I was never questioning the ethicality of that particular act; I was merely holding it up as an example that this community does not necessarily "pride itself in the free exchange of information" to the exclusion of the contrary. In terms of obsolete HP product documentation, it's probably the least free category of all.

Ángel Martin · 07-15-2016, 04:54 AM

(07-15-2016 12:11 AM)Gene Wrote:
(07-13-2016 12:49 PM)Gene Wrote: As to new projects :-) I would still like to see a couple of things:

1) Please find a fairly required .rom (such as the PowerCL, OSX3, etc.) to add INC and DEC as standard operating system functions. It is so nice not to have to do ISG X and add a NOP afterward. Is there any room anywhere in a rom most of us will always have plugged in to add these two short functions? :-)

and

2) I would still love to see the .raw files for the HP 67 games that have already been converted into HP 41 equivalents that are free for the downloading here on MoHPC put into a .rom with the card reader 7XXX functions. These are games that have no equivalent in the 41CL at present. I'm not talking about yet another blackjack :-) but games with no HP 41 option today.

Food for thought and a wink. ;-)

Angel, don't forget my pleas here for a couple of new projects. :-)

Something tells me you're not going to let me forget ;-)

Howard Owen · 07-15-2016, 05:52 AM

(07-14-2016 11:21 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote: After all, it takes time to type a response, and time is money.

Touché.

Paul Dale · 07-15-2016, 07:24 AM

(07-15-2016 04:54 AM)Ángel Martin Wrote: Something tells me you're not going to let me forget ;-)

Forget what?

Pauli

Didier Lachieze · 07-15-2016, 10:58 AM

(07-15-2016 09:49 AM)Mike (Stgt) Wrote: On the other hand I know that two persons did 'take' the ROM of the HP10C. They will not give it away to me. I can live with that.

I have a 10C with a keyboard issue that I will happily lend for free to anybody with the skills and tools to extract the ROM. The only condition is that he/she will share the ROM image with the community. If additionally the keyboard issue can be fixed that would be a nice bonus :-)

Jurgen Keller · 08-03-2016, 06:39 PM

(06-15-2014 03:11 PM)Ángel Martin Wrote: Folks, it's been over 33 years since the 41 was launched, and about 20 after its obsolescence - so it's probably time for a last community effort to preserve its module legacy.

I do not agree that the HP-41 is obsolete - still a lot of fun :-) - but I agree that we should keep on to preserve its modules. Here is my contribution: the Schenck Balancing Module / Auswuchtmodul CAB 41.

You can download it here. I've also sent the archive to TOS so it may show up there, too.

Besides the ROM images there is also a German manual included. Unfortunately, I didn't found an English manual yet, but a user of the CAB 41 module has compiled some quick start instructions that may help a bit. Furthermore I've found an application note from Bruel & Kjaer named "Static and Dynamic Balancing of Rigid Rotors" which gives some information about balancing problems and computations.

I know at least of one guy that is still using this module for his work (another point against obsolescence). A few years ago he contacted me because his CAB 41 module didn't work anymore and showed some random failures. Surprisingly, it worked fine in my 41CL (no idea why it makes a difference), and I could save the ROM image and burn it into CLONIX module. That guy was very happy that he got a working clone (which BTW is still working).

Enjoy and always stay "well balanced" :-)

Monte Dalrymple · 08-03-2016, 09:36 PM

(08-03-2016 06:39 PM)Jurgen Keller Wrote:
(06-15-2014 03:11 PM)Ángel Martin Wrote: Folks, it's been over 33 years since the 41 was launched, and about 20 after its obsolescence - so it's probably time for a last community effort to preserve its module legacy.

I do not agree that the HP-41 is obsolete - still a lot of fun :-) - but I agree that we should keep on to preserve its modules. Here is my contribution: the Schenck Balancing Module / Auswuchtmodul CAB 41.

Should this be included in the 41CL Flash contents? Instructions say "insert in Port 1." Is that restriction real?

Ángel Martin · 08-04-2016, 04:58 AM

(08-03-2016 06:39 PM)Jurgen Keller Wrote:
(06-15-2014 03:11 PM)Ángel Martin Wrote: Folks, it's been over 33 years since the 41 was launched, and about 20 after its obsolescence - so it's probably time for a last community effort to preserve its module legacy.

I do not agree that the HP-41 is obsolete - still a lot of fun :-) - but I agree that we should keep on to preserve its modules. Here is my contribution: the Schenck Balancing Module / Auswuchtmodul CAB 41.

Enjoy and always stay "well balanced" :-)

That's the spirit!!Way to go Jürgen, much appreciated... this module deserves not being lost in the dusts of time, and sure enough this contribution helps keep the 41 legacy alive.

Best,
ÁM

Jurgen Keller · 08-04-2016, 07:01 AM

(08-03-2016 09:36 PM)Monte Dalrymple Wrote:
(08-03-2016 06:39 PM)Jurgen Keller Wrote: I do not agree that the HP-41 is obsolete - still a lot of fun :-) - but I agree that we should keep on to preserve its modules. Here is my contribution: the Schenck Balancing Module / Auswuchtmodul CAB 41.

Should this be included in the 41CL Flash contents? Instructions say "insert in Port 1." Is that restriction real?

I've only a CLONIX version of the module. I've programmed it with the CAB 41 module in pages E and F, and it seems to work fine. As far as I know it's all FOCAL code, and I cannot imagine a reason why such code depends on a specific port. Therefore, I think there is no restriction, and if there is some space left in the 41CL it would be great to add the CAB 41 module.

Jurgen Keller · 11-25-2017, 07:12 PM

I've saved another one ... sent it to TOS, too.
Purpose unknown, if you have any information about this module please let me know.

MINDEF MORTAR

HP-Collection · 11-25-2017, 07:46 PM

(11-25-2017 07:12 PM)Jurgen Keller Wrote: I've saved another one ... sent it to TOS, too.
Purpose unknown, if you have any information about this module please let me know.

MINDEF MORTAR

Jurgen Keller · 11-25-2017, 08:09 PM

Matthias,
thanks for the PDF, however, I think this is a different module. MINDEF probably references the Singapore Ministry of Defence but that's just a guess.