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Monte Dalrymple · 11-25-2017, 08:18 PM

(11-25-2017 07:12 PM)Jurgen Keller Wrote: I've saved another one ... sent it to TOS, too.
Purpose unknown, if you have any information about this module please let me know.

MINDEF MORTAR

Added to the 41CL memory map a couple of days ago.

pier4r · (This post was last modified: 11-25-2017 09:53 PM by pier4r.)

(07-14-2016 09:12 PM)HP-Collection Wrote: ...
Even some of you do not want to understand my position I DO NOT WANT TO MAKE PROFIT, I only want to get back a small amount for my investment. Thats why I call it a refund and not a sale.
...

I chime in in the discussion because I'd like to produce an unsolicited response to your point.

First and foremost, for the rules of the current world, you have all the right to hold your possessions all by yourself. There is no problem in this, otherwise the current rules won't allow it.

Nevertheless I don't understand your request, and now I proceed to explain why.

For my perspective I see at least two ways (I guess there may be more) to be a user of "old calculators" (or whatever other object).
- one is to somewhat use them or find them useful.
- another is to buy them hoping to resell them later.

I assume, due to your posts, that the first case is the real case. You have your collection first and foremost because you want to get personal utility from it, aside from money in selling it back.

If it is so, I understand you even less. (I could understand a bit the part of "I buy low to sell high later")

Why do I don't understand you? Due to the utility factor.

When I buy a product that I'd like to posses and, even better, use, I make an initial investment in resources that match the expected utility that I will get from the object.

So in December 2010 I bought myself an hp50g for 100 Euros (quite high for me at the time, but even now it would be high).

With the following courses the experience in using the calculator repaid the expected utility fully. This because I spent 100 Euros, that for me were equal to some "expected" amount of utility points (that are subjective, they are more or less defined by feelings), say 500. In the subsequent months I studied for the university, I produced documentation with the 50g, I read forums, and I was happy to use it. It generated way more than 500 utility points. I estimate it was around 900 or 1000.

Even when, afterwards, I did not use it much, the only idea that the 50g was there near to me ready to help, generated utility points.

Then I used it again in 2013, and then in 2017 (now I am using it since some months, more or less). Those 100 Euros were nothing compared to the utility it produced. The 50g is close to 5000 utility points produced, if not more. I am really happy with it and I hope it won't break soon.

Those utility points, though, are not generated only by the calculator itself. The calculator, although wonderful, has the value greatly improved by the community online with discussions over years, publications, challenges, libraries (thanks you again, David! Thank you Claudio!) and so on.

So most of those utility points assigned to the 50g come from the community.

If the same applies to you, I would imagine that you bought your 41 to use it. It was, maybe, very expensive but I hope it gave back the utility points that you were expecting over years. Likely you found useful also the discussions online, the new modules, the interests for modules. The programming challenges or the math challenges. The discussions and so on.

Furthermore I imagine you used the modules you bought, or you enjoyed the manuals or you enjoyed already the idea to possess them.

All those are utility points.

Further involvement of the community with modules that you have, discussion, challenges, extensions and what not would generate more utility points related to what you already have.

Hence a question arise. If all those events did not repay you back of the investment you did, in terms of utility points, , then it is a pity. Then I can understand why you seek to get some money back, because the thing that you have already, and what you can get back from the community, are not enough to justify the investment that you did.

If, instead, you can tell me that the modules you bought, the manuals, the discussion you read online, the hp 41 and so on and so forth gave you already plenty of nice time, then you have your money back. The investment that you did, already repaid you in terms of utility points, and - at least in this community that is amazing (see note1) - can get only better if you share. Because if you share you have someone else to discuss with about the modules of your interest. (I hope)

Or maybe you got a module and you never used, although being happy to possess it, but then you see another member finding another nice usage for it and you engage him in a conversation and you are happy too. Those will be utility points.

I do not even have a 41 or a clone (for now), but it baffles me the idea that you have your collection and you did not get enough from it or you don't want to get enough for possible future topics that would arise from it.

So, that is my unsolicited response. Once again, you are completely free to do what you want and I thank you for the opportunity to let me write this wall of text. It gave me utility points as well. I just hope that it may let you reflect and if not, at least I hope you still enjoy your 41.

note1: some other communities are toxic, and I can understand people that don't like to share to those people.

Jurgen Keller · 11-25-2017, 11:45 PM

(11-25-2017 08:18 PM)Monte Dalrymple Wrote:
(11-25-2017 07:12 PM)Jurgen Keller Wrote: I've saved another one ... sent it to TOS, too.
Purpose unknown, if you have any information about this module please let me know.

MINDEF MORTAR

Added to the 41CL memory map a couple of days ago.

I missed that. Too many forums and web sites to check ...
As there is still a lot of free space in the V5 41CL we have to uncover many more ROM images and/or create some new ones :-)

**rprosperi** · 11-26-2017, 01:04 AM

(11-25-2017 07:12 PM)Jurgen Keller Wrote: I've saved another one ... sent it to TOS, too.
Purpose unknown, if you have any information about this module please let me know.

MINDEF MORTAR

Your ROM seems to be the same as this one for sale on TAS that I noticed earlier this week:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MORTAR-Module-f...2334322665,

And the associated overlay is unfortunately included with another 41CV bundle from the same seller here (rightmost photo):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP41CV-Calculat...4410d2c1d2

I'm not completely sure it's the same ROM, but one can see many of the same keywords in the ROM dump as listed on the overlay.

Too bad the seller wasn't smart enough to include the overlay with the ROM; and now that there are bids on the 41CV, the item contents cannot be changed even if he were notified.

Jurgen Keller · 11-26-2017, 04:26 PM

(11-26-2017 01:04 AM)rprosperi Wrote:
(11-25-2017 07:12 PM)Jurgen Keller Wrote: I've saved another one ... sent it to TOS, too.
Purpose unknown, if you have any information about this module please let me know.

MINDEF MORTAR

...

And the associated overlay is unfortunately included with another 41CV bundle from the same seller here (rightmost photo):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP41CV-Calculat...4410d2c1d2

I'm not completely sure it's the same ROM, but one can see many of the same keywords in the ROM dump as listed on the overlay.

Too bad the seller wasn't smart enough to include the overlay with the ROM; and now that there are bids on the 41CV, the item contents cannot be changed even if he were notified.

You're right, that's that corresponding overlay. The labels exactly match the keyboard assignments done automatically at startup. Maybe the seller was not aware that module and overlay belong together. We should bring together what belongs together ...

HP-Collection · 11-26-2017, 08:44 PM

So it seems to be now Wink

**rprosperi** · 11-26-2017, 11:32 PM

(11-26-2017 08:44 PM)HP-Collection Wrote: So it seems to be now

You got them both? Do you have a mortar to aim that we are not aware of??

Actually not bad prices for both items, though this must be your 20th 41 machine...

HP-Collection · 11-27-2017, 01:05 AM

No, I don^t but have a look at the winner of the auction...I think, he is well known.
Yes, Indeed, the price is not to bad. I would have paid this too to share the overlay to the public, but I was late.
I will use the auction picture and make a overlay for us loosers....

**rprosperi** · 11-27-2017, 02:35 AM

(11-27-2017 01:05 AM)HP-Collection Wrote: No, I don^t but have a look at the winner of the auction...I think, he is well known.
Yes, Indeed, the price is not to bad. I would have paid this too to share the overlay to the public, but I was late.
I will use the auction picture and make a overlay for us loosers....

Not to me, but you likely know other collectors better than I do. Assuming you are correct, any chance the new owner will share it? Would peer pressure help? Wink

hth · 11-27-2017, 05:16 AM

(11-27-2017 02:35 AM)rprosperi Wrote: Not to me, but you likely know other collectors better than I do. Assuming you are correct, any chance the new owner will share it? Would peer pressure help?

It is already shared above, if it is the ROM image you are looking for.

**rprosperi** · 11-27-2017, 02:43 PM

It is already shared above, if it is the ROM image you are looking for.
[/quote]

Sorry I wasn't clear; I was referring to the overlay. I don't need it, as I have no immediate plans to use a mortar; I'm just curious about collectables and how folks use/share them.

toml_12953 · 11-27-2017, 04:57 PM

(11-26-2017 01:04 AM)rprosperi Wrote:
(11-25-2017 07:12 PM)Jurgen Keller Wrote: I've saved another one ... sent it to TOS, too.
Purpose unknown, if you have any information about this module please let me know.

MINDEF MORTAR

Your ROM seems to be the same as this one for sale on TAS that I noticed earlier this week:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MORTAR-Module-f...2334322665,

And the associated overlay is unfortunately included with another 41CV bundle from the same seller here (rightmost photo):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP41CV-Calculat...4410d2c1d2

I'm not completely sure it's the same ROM, but one can see many of the same keywords in the ROM dump as listed on the overlay.

Too bad the seller wasn't smart enough to include the overlay with the ROM; and now that there are bids on the 41CV, the item contents cannot be changed even if he were notified.

He could end the auction early and resubmit it with the added info. Other people have done that.

Jurgen Keller · 11-27-2017, 05:30 PM

(11-27-2017 02:35 AM)rprosperi Wrote: Assuming you are correct, any chance the new owner will share it? Would peer pressure help?

No pressure needed, I will share a scan of the overlay.

**rprosperi** · 11-27-2017, 08:00 PM

(11-27-2017 05:30 PM)Jurgen Keller Wrote:
(11-27-2017 02:35 AM)rprosperi Wrote: Assuming you are correct, any chance the new owner will share it? Would peer pressure help?

No pressure needed, I will share a scan of the overlay.

I had no idea it was you Jurgen; if so, I would not have commented, as I know you always share such resources, and frequently contribute to the community.

So, do you have mortar, requiring such an aiming solution?

Jurgen Keller · 11-28-2017, 06:06 PM

(11-27-2017 08:00 PM)rprosperi Wrote:
(11-27-2017 05:30 PM)Jurgen Keller Wrote: No pressure needed, I will share a scan of the overlay.

I had no idea it was you Jurgen; if so, I would not have commented, as I know you always share such resources, and frequently contribute to the community.

So, do you have mortar, requiring such an aiming solution?

No problem. I guess that Matthias did an educated guess based on the number of feedbacks on eBay to trace it back to me (he also knows my eBay nickname). The world is small, at least that's true for the HP calculator community.

And nope, I don't own a mortar. I only bought it to preserve the module for educational and historic purposes (and because somehow we have to fill the V5 CL). However, as the image appeared a few days ago on Systemide, someone was faster than me. No problem for me, it's a nice addition to my collection (which is way smaller than Matthias's one).

HP-Collection · 11-28-2017, 06:37 PM

Voila, here is the overlay ....

Overlay Mortar (GIF & JPG)

larthurl · 11-28-2017, 06:39 PM

https://www.facebook.com/MyCleanSickSens...05/?type=3

(06-19-2014 03:07 PM)Ángel Martin Wrote:
(06-19-2014 01:01 PM)Andres Wrote: Crow funding is always available, but not reccomendable at all. Crowd-funding may be a better choice. :-)

Best regards,

why, don't you like ravens? ;-)

Maybe it's time to prepare the Spelling-ROM for the 41, all MCODE of course...

PS: recommendable has 2 m's, not 2 C's

Ángel Martin · 11-30-2017, 05:41 AM

Well I've been considering buying a Mortar for a long time now so having this ROM image available just tipped the scale for my Christmas present ;-)

Can't wait to try the new toy with the MorZEN and WPN modules too !

Jurgen Keller · 04-20-2020, 10:00 AM

(08-03-2016 06:39 PM)Jurgen Keller Wrote:
(06-15-2014 03:11 PM)Ángel Martin Wrote: Folks, it's been over 33 years since the 41 was launched, and about 20 after its obsolescence - so it's probably time for a last community effort to preserve its module legacy.

I do not agree that the HP-41 is obsolete - still a lot of fun :-) - but I agree that we should keep on to preserve its modules. Here is my contribution: the Schenck Balancing Module / Auswuchtmodul CAB 41.

You can download it here. I've also sent the archive to TOS so it may show up there, too.

Besides the ROM images there is also a German manual included. Unfortunately, I didn't found an English manual yet, but a user of the CAB 41 module has compiled some quick start instructions that may help a bit. Furthermore I've found an application note from Bruel & Kjaer named "Static and Dynamic Balancing of Rigid Rotors" which gives some information about balancing problems and computations.

I know at least of one guy that is still using this module for his work (another point against obsolescence). A few years ago he contacted me because his CAB 41 module didn't work anymore and showed some random failures. Surprisingly, it worked fine in my 41CL (no idea why it makes a difference), and I could save the ROM image and burn it into CLONIX module. That guy was very happy that he got a working clone (which BTW is still working).

Enjoy and always stay "well balanced" :-)

Just a small update: the English manual is now available. Many thanks to Simon Mills who uncovered and scanned it during the COVID-19 lockdown. Use the above link to download it or refer to TOS.

toml_12953 · 04-20-2020, 10:08 AM

(06-19-2014 03:07 PM)Ángel Martin Wrote:
(06-19-2014 01:01 PM)Andres Wrote: Crow funding is always available, but not reccomendable at all. Crowd-funding may be a better choice. :-)

Best regards,

why, don't you like ravens? ;-)

Maybe it's time to prepare the Spelling-ROM for the 41, all MCODE of course...

PS: recommendable has 2 m's, not 2 C's

When you have a bunch of people crow funding, is it a murder?