News from Swiss Micros

[Namir]

Anyone else saw the new video from Micnael Steinmann at Swiss Micros? He said he quit his job to concenrtate on making a new RPN keystroke programmable machine based on the Saturn processor. A new model is on the horizon!

Go Swiss Micros!

Namir

[Steve Simpkin]

Exciting news Thanks Namir!

Here is a link to the video.
https://youtu.be/kxT3nF_A0bU

Let's see. Keystroke programmable, Saturn based, entry level, RPN with no complex menus. I really can't think of any HP model that fits all of those characteristics. The HP-32S kind of comes close but it is hardly entry level in my opinion and the current HP35s is a close enough successor that I don't think SwissMicro would bother. All of the "simpler" Saturn based models I can think of are not RPN.

[Dave Britten]

I think the 32S could qualify as "entry level". Frankly, I'd love a proper successor to the 32SII, without all the problems the 33S and 35S have.

[Steve Simpkin]

(05-29-2021 12:57 AM)Dave Britten Wrote:  I think the 32S could qualify as "entry level". Frankly, I'd love a proper successor to the 32SII, without all the problems the 33S and 35S have.

Maybe, but the HP-32S does have 16 keys that open menus so it is not completely without menus. The HP-32S II has 14 menu keys. Also is the firmware still under HP copyright for these models?

The SwissMicro forum for this May 2021 announcement is hopping with activity too. It started speculating back in January! I guess this announcement has been some time in coming. Here is the page where news of today's video was posted.
https://forum.swissmicros.com/viewtopic....art=90#top

[Dave Britten]

(05-29-2021 03:42 AM)Steve Simpkin Wrote:  

(05-29-2021 12:57 AM)Dave Britten Wrote:  I think the 32S could qualify as "entry level". Frankly, I'd love a proper successor to the 32SII, without all the problems the 33S and 35S have.

Maybe, but the HP-32S does have 16 keys that open menus so it is not completely without menus. The HP-32S II has 14 menu keys. Also is the firmware still under HP copyright for these models?

Quite true, but I wouldn't call them "complex" menus. In fact the 32SII added a second shift key and reduced the number of menus, and in some cases flattened them (the x register tests, for instance).

I believe these firmwares are still copyrighted, so if SM were to do a 32SII+ (that's a big 'if'), it would have to be a clean-room reimplementation like Free42.

[Steve Simpkin]

(05-29-2021 01:05 PM)Dave Britten Wrote:  

(05-29-2021 03:42 AM)Steve Simpkin Wrote:  Maybe, but the HP-32S does have 16 keys that open menus so it is not completely without menus. The HP-32S II has 14 menu keys. Also is the firmware still under HP copyright for these models?

Quite true, but I wouldn't call them "complex" menus. In fact the 32SII added a second shift key and reduced the number of menus, and in some cases flattened them (the x register tests, for instance).

I believe these firmwares are still copyrighted, so if SM were to do a 32SII+ (that's a big 'if'), it would have to be a clean-room reimplementation like Free42.

Interesting points. However if they were planning to do a clean-room reimplementation, without using existing HP calculator firmware, I would expect them to stick with native ARM code rather than emulating the Saturn.

[Dave Britten]

(05-29-2021 01:15 PM)Steve Simpkin Wrote:  Interesting points. However if they were planning to do a clean-room reimplementation, without using existing HP calculator firmware, I would expect them to stick with native ARM code rather than emulating the Saturn.

Yeah, that's the strange part. All of the Saturn-based calculators are copyrighted ROMs, right? So what's the impetus for using a Saturn emulation if it's going to be their own code running on it?

In any case, the 32SII is the only existing model I can think of that could be considered an entry-level, RPN, keystroke-programmable calculator without overwhelming menus, and running on a Saturn. Unless they're going to make a 20SII with RPN.

[Luigi Vampa]

Some Michael's clues may sound a bit weird. Anyway, a DM32s could be a nice&compact daily driver. I would be in!

[johanw]

I really don't see the advantage of building a 32s clone when you already have the 15C and the similar looking but more powerful 42s clones.

The only other calculators I can think of that are in high demand from enthousiasts and are sufficiently different from the existing SwissMicros models are the 48 and 28 (unless you want to clone even odler models like the 67). But those are not real RPN machines and might cause legal issues with HP. The 71B is of course also very different but definitely not an RPN machine.

[ijabbott]

Assuming this will use 32S or 32SII firmware, I wonder if it would get implemented on their Voyager-style platform and therefore end up in landscape format like the DM41?

EDIT: The soft menu keys wouldn't line up with the display menu very well on the existing Voyager-style platform.

[Didier Lachieze]

My guess : SwissMicros is developing a device with a Saturn emulator for art lovers

[Thomas Okken]

If I felt like betting, my money would be on an HP-50g clone. They wouldn't be able to sell it with an HP ROM image preinstalled, hence the "entry-level keystroke-programmable" firmware, since it would look odd to sell a calculator with no firmware preinstalled at all.

[Dave Britten]

(05-30-2021 12:44 PM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:  My guess : SwissMicros is developing a device with a Saturn emulator for art lovers

And we also have to consider the possibility that Michael was referring to the Sega Saturn!

I think Thomas' theory makes the most sense so far. Sell the device with a simple 32SII-like firmware (which could be quite nice in and of itself), and allow the user to load a 50g ROM they've procured elsewhere. It'll be fairly obvious if that's what SM has in mind as soon as we see a prototype photo and get look at the keyboard layout. Or if it's labeled DM50 - that would be a pretty obvious giveaway too.

[Luigi Vampa]

Good thinking, though HW cost would be close to DM42, wouldn't it? If so, the price tag should stay close to DM42's, and Michael mentioned 'entry level'.

A DM50 may have its appeal to some people, but it wouldn't be my cup of tea. I already have one, and cheap second-hand units in very good shape can be locally sourced, at least in my area.

[Eric Rechlin]

Thomas's guess seems the most plausible.

A DM50 would be amazing, even if it's a bit higher than the ~$250 price of the current DM42/DM41X models, because that's still cheaper than a new-old-stock 50g is going for now (though more than a used 50g). It would be half as thick as the original 50g, making it much more portable, with a much better display (the memory LCD in the DM42 is the perfect resolution at 400x240 -- it would use 393x240 for the 50g display and have some pixels on the right or left for some approximations of the annunciators). And with a modern CPU it could be a lot faster than the 50g.

I would assume it would not cost much more than the DM42/DM41X because it would have a very similar build cost with the exception of a better SOC (more memory/flash/speed) and 8 more keys.

And of course, they'd want to avoid legal troubles with HP by not selling it with a ROM. Yes, they could probably get away with it (HP is fine with distribution of the ROM, and probably doesn't care even if it's commercial because the RPL machines are dead products), but making it a clean-recreation of a simple machine that coincidentally has a keyboard layout compatible with the 50g (but please do a double-wide ENTER key if possible!) and coincidentally has an emulator that can make it run a 50g ROM too would make it unquestionably legal.

[ijabbott]

I don't think a DM50 is very likely and it could hardly be classed as "entry level".

Perhaps there will be a new platform / form factor, like a cut down DM42 with a narrower display, i.e. more like the Pioneer series.

[Namir]

I think SM plans to build a new model keystroke RPN (so no RPL and no HP-48 or HP-50 clones) calculator that has commands we are all familiar with and perhaps inspired by the 41, 42, and so on. This approach gives them a free hand to create something we all like! I think they are betting with the familiary of the commands and ease of learning with this new calculator.

Namir

[Eric Rechlin]

(05-30-2021 08:23 PM)Namir Wrote:  I think SM plans to build a new model keystroke RPN (so no RPL and no HP-48 or HP-50 clones) calculator that has commands we are all familiar with and perhaps inspired by the 41, 42, and so on. This approach gives them a free hand to create something we all like! I think they are betting with the familiary of the commands and ease of learning with this new calculator.

Namir

Could be, but it would make zero sense to have it involve Saturn at all then, unless it's to emulate an RPL model. They already have the best RPN Saturn-based calculator (DM42), and the 71B is the only other interesting non-RPL Saturn-based model, but it isn't RPN.

[Werner]

(05-30-2021 12:53 PM)Thomas Okken Wrote:  If I felt like betting, my money would be on an HP-50g clone.

But then, they wouldn't need Saturn emulation, as that is included in the 50G ROM?
Cheers, Werner

[3298]

In addition to not needing a Saturn emulator because the 50g has one already, the 50g firmware's ARM code runs on bare metal, meaning it's basically guaranteed to contain some snippets that interface with the S3C2410 SoC directly (e.g. for power management, keyboard, or display). Swapping out the SoC for a newer one would surely create some problems with those parts of the code. This could potentially be handled with a basic VM, but I'm not convinced they would put that kind of effort in.

Also, there's no reason to develop a crippled placeholder firmware to sell it with, just adapt newRPL for the hardware to get a product that is much more useful by itself.

Therefore I believe the 50g is out as a candidate - which is unfortunate, because I'm not interested in pre-RPL models.