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J-F Garnier · 10-07-2021, 10:32 AM

I watched the video with Bob's concocted challenge. I loved it and have to admit that my score was rather low ...

I even failed to find the answer to the question #5 " For the HP-41, which commands are HP-IL specific, yet are NOT in the HP-IL module?".
Too bad for a so-called HP-IL expert :-(

A few comments:

Question #12: "Which Pioneer machines were only sold in a single model configuration?"
One of Bob's answers was the HP-22S, but it's wrong it existed as the 32S (see question 8) with
original flat LCD + small LCD digits + boxed alpha letters and
improved recessed LCD + larger digits + unboxed-lowered letters. See here.

Question #13: "Which HP calculator returns -0.00 for certain operations?"
The HP-71B came to my mind immediately since it handles signed zero, but I guess it is out of scope according to the way the question is set (-0.00)
My answer would be the HP-45 (maybe others too): try 1000 CHS 1/x and you get -0.00. Doesn't it fit the question? :-)

Thanks again Bob for the fun !

J-F

Albert Chan · 10-07-2021, 11:44 AM

(10-07-2021 10:32 AM)J-F Garnier Wrote: Question #13: "Which HP calculator returns -0.00 for certain operations?"
The HP-71B came to my mind immediately since it handles signed zero ...

Is HP-71B the only HP calculator that support signed zero ?
(display bug like returning -0.00 does not count)

**rprosperi** · 10-07-2021, 01:07 PM

I'm glad you liked the Challenge J-F, it took a couple years to assemble those odd questions.

Regarding the HP-22S, at least one of the late, stepped-bezel style clearly existed, but only in prototype form, thus not meeting the criteria of being a 'production model'.

Regarding the 71B's support of -0.00, I had simply forgotten this was supported. which I've since easily confirmed (try 2 * -0.00). Rather embarrassing for a long-time 71B user and apparently not much of an expert...

I'm intrigued about your comments on the HP-45, I need to try this today. I suppose a display of -0.00 under the default display setting of FIX 2 for values such as -0.001 should technically qualify as a valid answer, cases I had not considered. It's all about the rules... :-)

J-F Garnier · (This post was last modified: 10-07-2021 01:57 PM by J-F Garnier.)

(10-07-2021 01:07 PM)rprosperi Wrote: Regarding the HP-22S, at least one of the late, stepped-bezel style clearly existed, but only in prototype form, thus not meeting the criteria of being a 'production model'.

Interesting, so the machine on the HP-22S page of this HP Museum is a prototype?
Just found the mystery already discussed here:
https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-64...l#pid58430

J-F

Andres · 10-07-2021, 04:15 PM

The HP 71B was the first HP handheld to implement IEEE 754 standard for floating point numbers. This standard supports positive and negative representations of zero, so a negative zero display on the 71B is something to be expected.

Jake Schwartz · 10-07-2021, 06:56 PM

(10-07-2021 11:44 AM)Albert Chan Wrote:
(10-07-2021 10:32 AM)J-F Garnier Wrote: Question #13: "Which HP calculator returns -0.00 for certain operations?"
The HP-71B came to my mind immediately since it handles signed zero ...

Is HP-71B the only HP calculator that support signed zero ?
(display bug like returning -0.00 does not count)

If only "signed zero" is desired, then the 16C in ones-complement mode does that as well. Not a float, however.

Jake

Carsen · 10-07-2021, 07:27 PM

I also watched the video and did the challenge. I got 3 correct. Fun and engaging.

For question 18, the HP-18C has 4 general purpose storage registers too, which was my answer. I forgot about the 14B, even though I own one!

Eric Rechlin · 10-07-2021, 09:46 PM

I said in the video that I got 4 right, but after looking through the questions again I now realize I got 5 right (#3, #9, #11, #14, and #16).

For #16 I actually got one more item that Bob forgot, but then in our discussion in the video he remembered yet one more, so there are actually 9 to list, not 7 as shown on the answer slide. I gave myself credit for that one but I suppose whether you just have to list at least 7 or all 9 to get credit is up for debate.

For #9, I would say that was a trick question, but I still got it right (Richard seemed to realize that also). Though to be honest I still am not 100% sure the official answer (or at least the month given) is correct -- discontinuation dates are notoriously difficult to pin down.

For #6 I forgot about the third one, but considering how little information there is on the Internet about that model I would be surprised if anyone remembered it. Didn't give myself credit on that one.

Going through all the models and reviewing their manuals to make the documentation list definitely helped me with some of these!

BruceH · 10-07-2021, 10:10 PM

Some of those answers are open to challenge. :-)

Q2: The calc on the market for the shortest time was probably the HP-15C Limited Edition

Q3: I have a QuickCalc still in its packaging that has no model number on the calc and no model number on the packaging!

P.S. I also have a PrintCalc 100 which is a good thing because I certainly wouldn't have won :-)

BruceH · 10-07-2021, 10:21 PM

(10-07-2021 07:27 PM)Carsen Wrote: I also watched the video and did the challenge. I got 3 correct. Fun and engaging.

For question 18, the HP-18C has 4 general purpose storage registers too, which was my answer. I forgot about the 14B, even though I own one!

The 10C nominally has ten registers (R0 - R9) but R0 - R5 are also used by the statistics routines so that only leaves four that are general purpose - depending on how you interpret the question wording. :-)

**rprosperi** · 10-08-2021, 01:16 AM

(10-07-2021 07:27 PM)Carsen Wrote: I also watched the video and did the challenge. I got 3 correct. Fun and engaging.

For question 18, the HP-18C has 4 general purpose storage registers too, which was my answer. I forgot about the 14B, even though I own one!

BRAVO Carsen!!

I simply missed this. I thought the 18C had 10 registers as the 19B/19BII do. I even checked this one (with the 19BII manual) so missed it!

**rprosperi** · 10-08-2021, 01:29 AM

(10-07-2021 10:10 PM)BruceH Wrote: Some of those answers are open to challenge. :-)

Q2: The calc on the market for the shortest time was probably the HP-15C Limited Edition

Q3: I have a QuickCalc still in its packaging that has no model number on the calc and no model number on the packaging!

P.S. I also have a PrintCalc 100 which is a good thing because I certainly wouldn't have won :-)

RE: Q2 - This is a great point Bruce!! It raises questions also about other Anniversary Editions as well (32S, 14B, 12C 30th Ann, 12CP 25th Ann, etc.). I've no idea how long any of these were "on the market". On the other hand, as HP has never, to my knowledge, announced end of availability of the 15C LE, it may technically still be officially available... it's so annoying when product lifespans are not officially announced. Wink

RE: Q3 - If it's actually still in its packaging, how can you tell there is no model number on the calc itself?

Actually this is interesting as it means there were at least 2 quite different labels used for the pivotal QuickCalc. If you ever decide to open the package, please post a photo of the label for comparison, and I'll dig out a QC this weekend and do the same.

**rprosperi** · 10-08-2021, 01:32 AM

(10-07-2021 09:46 PM)Eric Rechlin Wrote: I said in the video that I got 4 right, but after looking through the questions again I now realize I got 5 right (#3, #9, #11, #14, and #16).

[snip]

5 is the high score I've seen so far... well done Eric!

Any other comers??

KimH · 10-08-2021, 07:04 AM

I had 2 - #1 (odd one to know) and the long list of “unused” model-numbers, 44 was what got my attention there.

On the shortest lifespan, I had 28C - I recall it was about 12 months between the C and the S. Can’t find a list anywhere with intro- and obsoletion dates. I am sure one exist, but don’t know where.

Fun video to play along with, thanks Bob!

AndiGer · 10-08-2021, 10:28 AM

(10-08-2021 07:04 AM)KimH Wrote: Can’t find a list anywhere with intro- and obsoletion dates. I am sure one exist, but don’t know where.

Here you can find some info on discontinuation ...
http://www.vcalc.net/hp-date.htm
Andi

**rprosperi** · 10-08-2021, 12:24 PM

(10-08-2021 07:04 AM)KimH Wrote: I had 2 - #1 (odd one to know) and the long list of “unused” model-numbers, 44 was what got my attention there.

On the shortest lifespan, I had 28C - I recall it was about 12 months between the C and the S. Can’t find a list anywhere with intro- and obsoletion dates. I am sure one exist, but don’t know where.

Fun video to play along with, thanks Bob!

Checking... The 28C was officially available Jan 87 - Feb 88, so 14 months and thus this ties with the HP-70. Probably the 28C was not discontinued until February to allow enough time for the new 28S (introduced in January) to fill the channel.

Good call Kim!!

I am learning so much here! Smile

BruceH · 10-08-2021, 04:52 PM

(10-08-2021 01:29 AM)rprosperi Wrote: RE: Q2 - This is a great point Bruce!! It raises questions also about other Anniversary Editions as well (32S, 14B, 12C 30th Ann, 12CP 25th Ann, etc.). I've no idea how long any of these were "on the market". On the other hand, as HP has never, to my knowledge, announced end of availability of the 15C LE, it may technically still be officially available... it's so annoying when product lifespans are not officially announced.

Wasn't the 32S anniversary edition (the one with the medallion) only given out at a maths teacher's conference so technically it was never on the market?

Quote:RE: Q3 - If it's actually still in its packaging, how can you tell there is no model number on the calc itself?

Easy, I look through the clear plastic packaging. :-)

Quote:Actually this is interesting as it means there were at least 2 quite different labels used for the pivotal QuickCalc. If you ever decide to open the package, please post a photo of the label for comparison, and I'll dig out a QC this weekend and do the same.

ijabbott · 10-08-2021, 05:06 PM

(10-08-2021 04:52 PM)BruceH Wrote: [quote='rprosperi' pid='152934' dateline='1633656586']

Quote:RE: Q3 - If it's actually still in its packaging, how can you tell there is no model number on the calc itself?

Easy, I look through the clear plastic packaging. :-)

But can you see through the cardboard on the back? :-)

http://www.datamath.org/Related/HewlettP...c_BACK.jpg

Eric Rechlin · 10-08-2021, 05:29 PM

The QuickCalc on the door prize table (sorry, I didn't take a photo) said HP-01 on the back of the packaging, and the loose calculators I've seen said HP-10 on the back of the calculator, which is the opposite of what Bob put in his slide. As Richard said at the conference, according to Sam Kim what is on the calculator itself is definitive, which is why we call the QuickCalc another HP-10 and not another HP-01.

KimH · 10-08-2021, 06:15 PM

AFAIK Every employee at the time got the choice of a 14b or 32s with the emblem.

(10-08-2021 04:52 PM)BruceH Wrote:
(10-08-2021 01:29 AM)rprosperi Wrote: RE: Q2 - This is a great point Bruce!! It raises questions also about other Anniversary Editions as well (32S, 14B, 12C 30th Ann, 12CP 25th Ann, etc.). I've no idea how long any of these were "on the market". On the other hand, as HP has never, to my knowledge, announced end of availability of the 15C LE, it may technically still be officially available... it's so annoying when product lifespans are not officially announced.

Wasn't the 32S anniversary edition (the one with the medallion) only given out at a maths teacher's conference so technically it was never on the market?

Quote:RE: Q3 - If it's actually still in its packaging, how can you tell there is no model number on the calc itself?

Easy, I look through the clear plastic packaging. :-)

Quote:Actually this is interesting as it means there were at least 2 quite different labels used for the pivotal QuickCalc. If you ever decide to open the package, please post a photo of the label for comparison, and I'll dig out a QC this weekend and do the same.