HP 41 PPC ROM Production Run Total

[ThomasM]

Hello Bob,
thank you for your efforts, thats what I was hoping! I know that Richard Nelson worked at EduCALC in these years and maybe his module got mixed up with the normal ones.
And sorry, I still have a Math/Stat Module in good condition, I will never give away my PPC ROM to someone else. :-)

[rprosperi]

(10-06-2022 02:50 PM)ThomasM Wrote:  Hello Bob,
thank you for your efforts, thats what I was hoping! I know that Richard Nelson worked at EduCALC in these years and maybe his module got mixed up with the normal ones.
And sorry, I still have a Math/Stat Module in good condition, I will never give away my PPC ROM to someone else. :-)

I totally get it, it was only a joke...

[vervalin]

@dmh -- Your PPC ROM (1889B) was originally purchased by PPC Member #6510. No idea who that is or how to find out. Maybe there is a list of PPC Members with their IDs archived somewhere.

[Sylvain Cote]

(10-06-2022 02:57 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  I totally get it, it was only a joke...

... really ? ...

[dmh]

How did you work this out? Is there a list of module numbers to members somewhere?

(10-06-2022 02:57 PM)vervalin Wrote:  @dmh -- Your PPC ROM (1889B) was originally purchased by PPC Member #6510. No idea who that is or how to find out. Maybe there is a list of PPC Members with their IDs archived somewhere.

[Gene]

Yes, in the PPC ROM manual.

Gene

[Sylvain Cote]

(10-06-2022 11:13 PM)Gene Wrote:  Yes, in the PPC ROM manual.

Code:

Appendix
|  Content                      Page(s)               
-  ---------------------------  --------------------
B  Project Contributors         105                 
C  ROM Routine Author List      109                 
E  ROM Project Expense Summary  131                 
F  ROM Order List               135,143,165,169,173

The PPC ROM User's Manual was and still is amazing!

[dmh]

Ok, I missed that page when I read the manual :-)

So it doesn't list A and B for the module numbers and appears to list separate numbers. Was the A and B post the manual?

Also, there are quantities of 1, or does this actually mean 2 (ie post the manual also)?

(10-06-2022 11:13 PM)Gene Wrote:  Yes, in the PPC ROM manual.

Gene

[Sylvain Cote]

(10-07-2022 12:35 AM)dmh Wrote:  Ok, I missed that page when I read the manual :-)

So it doesn't list A and B for the module numbers and appears to list separate numbers. Was the A and B post the manual?

Also, there are quantities of 1, or does this actually mean 2 (ie post the manual also)?

Quote:Reply to:

Richard J. Nelson
********************
********************
********************

December 14, 1981

Dear PPC ROM Participant,

Enclosed in this box are the following.*

A. This letter with its enclosures.
B. 1 Insert (Contents noted on package--two ROMs, two Pocket Guides, etc.)
C. 2 Bound PPC ROM USER'S MANUALS.
D. Loose-leaf PPC ROM USER'S MANUALS.
(All four (4) manuals identical.)

Your receipt of this box completes the major portion of the PPC ROM Project.
This has been a unique project in the history of voluntary, non-profit,
educational projects. I appreciate your support and faith that we could
actually accomplish our goals.

Because of the economics of numbers and a price reduction that HP made after
the project started you actually have two ROMs and two sets of manuals. I
believe that it is most fitting that if you "dispose" of one of your ROM's
that you do so to another PPC Member, or to a person who joins PPC.

Your ROM's are serialized. The complete list of serial numbers (1A, 1B thru
2500A, 2500B) are in the Manual in Appendix F on page 135. Serial numbers
1997A and 1997B "disappeared" in the packing process. If you ever see either
of these ROM's let me know. When you open the sealed, Z fold insert containing
the two ROM's verify the serial numbers with Appendix F. Please let me know
of any discrepancies There will be an addendum published by Mid 1982 and I
would like Appendix F to be updated if any errors are found. The Pocket Guide
is to be rewritten by you. I hope you will send in your inputs so a final
version can be printed and sent to you with the addendum.

Attached to this letter is a label that will be used to mail your addendum.
Please keep it handy to mail when the call for labels is made. You may mail
this label to PPC at any convenient time provided you are sure of the address
(to be used in mid 1982). PLEASE cut the label on the dotted lines, this will
help me to sort, and handle the labels. Fill out completely, being sure to
include your ROM order number (same as serial number on your ROM) member
number, name, and complete address One set of two addendums will be sent to
one address for each order. (2500 total)

The production of PPC CALCULATOR JOURNALS has been disrupted during the
preparation of the PPC ROM USER'S MANUAL. This caused the August and September-
December issues to be sent late in 1981. Normal activity will continue in
January 1982. Please send in your applications of ROM routines for publication.
I am especially interested in your feelings of "complete and free" usage of ROM
routines in your programs, comments pro and con, etc The ROM PROGRESS
Column will continue.

*If you live outside the United States your "box" is really an envelope
containing the "insert" only. The box will arrive later by sea parcel post
containing the four (4) ROM Manuals.

[rprosperi]

Udpate #2:

All 5000 of the original lot were pre-sold to PPC members (orders received for 2500 pcs.) and were shipped to them at the end of 1981.

HP Provided some extra ROMs to replace potential DOA units, etc. and this was between 2-3%, so a max of 150 more ROMs. After it became clear that there were few or no failures, PPC decided to sell these as there was now demand from members that regretted not doing an initial order as well as new PPC members.

It seems these were depleted by ~3/82 and a minimal order (believe 250) was placed, which accounts for the '222x' units. These seem to have lasted about a year, when a final order was placed for another minimum order of 250, and these are the '233x' marked units.

So, this nets out to 5600-5650 total ROMs produced, and explains the small mystery about the '82 production numbers folks posted.

The bad news here is even though I have ROMs from '81 and '83, the OCD collector in me is now wondering if the PPC ROMs in the collection are complete without one from all 3 production runs...

[vervalin]

Thanks Bob!! Awesome analysis and now we all know the "rest of the story" :-)

Did you see my picture above of the ODD one with the P18 stamped on the case?

I do not know the production date yet as it won't be in my possession for another week. I'll know then. But it is certainly not one of the "serial number" ROMs. So, it'll be interesting to get the date off of it. I'll post here once I know.

Thanks again for taking the time to track all this down. I love the history and I am also OCD so I get it - lol

Paul

[rprosperi]

(10-07-2022 02:02 AM)vervalin Wrote:  Did you see my picture above of the ODD one with the P18 stamped on the case?

Actually I missed that until now, thanks for noting it. I've no idea, but I'll speculate that this is one of the 'extra' units that HP provided as replacement units for the lot of 5000. I've not a clue what P18 stands for, however the engraving style appears to be just the same as seen on the top of the first-run units (hard to tell, the photo is not great), and I've not seen this style on other ROMs. I look forward to finding out, please do post what you find here. Thanks!

[Jake Schwartz]

(10-06-2022 03:49 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  Here's the answers, straight from Richard:

The initial order was placed (early 82?), planned for 2500 pieces. After the order was placed, the actual costs were finalized and based on the estimated price paid by PPC members, it became clear that PPC could actually provide 2 ROMs to each of the initial buyers, which is why the first 5000 pieces are marked 1-2500A and 1-2500B, each member received a matched pair of A & B ROMs.

The letter which came in the box with the initial ROM order to users (and mine was #78) was dated Dec 14, 1981. This implies that the order would have been placed with HP earlier than 1982. In PPC Journal V8N1 (Jan/Feb 1981) on page 5 is the monthly "ROM Progress" column where it was announced that the completion of the initial testing of the ROM image in the HP software development system was Feb 17, 1981.

In the accompanying member letter with PPC Journal V7N8 (Oct 1980), Richard Nelson wrote: "..I have officially placed the order with HP and gave them the check for the tooling..." So 1980 it is.
Thanks,
Jake

[rprosperi]

(10-07-2022 02:59 AM)Jake Schwartz Wrote:  

(10-06-2022 03:49 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  Here's the answers, straight from Richard:

The initial order was placed (early 82?), planned for 2500 pieces. After the order was placed, the actual costs were finalized and based on the estimated price paid by PPC members, it became clear that PPC could actually provide 2 ROMs to each of the initial buyers, which is why the first 5000 pieces are marked 1-2500A and 1-2500B, each member received a matched pair of A & B ROMs.

The letter which came in the box with the initial ROM order to users (and mine was #78) was dated Dec 14, 1981. This implies that the order would have been placed with HP earlier than 1982. In PPC Journal V8N1 (Jan/Feb 1981) on page 5 is the monthly "ROM Progress" column where it was announced that the completion of the initial testing of the ROM image in the HP software development system was Feb 17, 1981.

In the accompanying member letter with PPC Journal V7N8 (Oct 1980), Richard Nelson wrote: "..I have officially placed the order with HP and gave them the check for the tooling..." So 1980 it is.
Thanks,
Jake

Thanks Jake!

Actually what I wrote was a typo, it clearly should have been 'early 81?', but your usual great research proved that even that guess was not early enough. I knew there was a several month lead time to prepare the mask, but Richard was not sure how long it was. The actual facts and timeline are slowly emerging...

[AndiGer]

(10-07-2022 02:02 AM)vervalin Wrote:  Did you see my picture above of the ODD one with the P18 stamped on the case?

Were there prototypes of the ROM?

[Didier Lachieze]

(10-07-2022 02:23 PM)AndiGer Wrote:  

(10-07-2022 02:02 AM)vervalin Wrote:  Did you see my picture above of the ODD one with the P18 stamped on the case?

Were there prototypes of the ROM?

There were 10 pre-production samples sent by HP for validation before the full production units as mentioned in the ROM schedule published in PPC V8N2:

   

and their reception was confirmed in the letter sent with PPC V8N6:

   

[rprosperi]

Oohhh, what a delicious theory, that this "P18" unit is in fact one of the Prototype modules.

Gotta check on that... though I don't recall ever hearing that prototypes were in fact delivered. The eventual schedule obviously slipped and of course no MCODE routines ultimately were included, so things clearly did not go as planned.

[Felix Gross]

I was curious, as I ordered my PPC ROM from EduCalc on December 20, 1983. I received it in Germany on February 14, 1984.

The underside of the ROM looks *exactly* like Joe's. The number is 2332. Even the first 2 is a little higher than the other three digits.

So ROMs were apparently available long after the first and second order.

Felix

[vervalin]

Ok, I have the 4 digit date stamp from the "unusual" P18 PPC ROM Module (The P18 is the same font and impression as the "serial number" impressions)

Date Stamp: 2148 (See attached photo)
Also, this date stamp is at the END of the 4 week 1981 production run which seems like that would be the time when HP would be producing the overrun modules. Speculation....

So, the date fits in with the initial 5000 production run. No idea for sure, but the speculation that this might be one of the "surplus" 3% overrun PPC ROM Modules seems like a good guess.

Thoughts?
Paul

[poul_den]

My PPC ROM bought about 35 years ago has 2148 on one side and P1 engraved on the other.

yours, Poul Kaarup, Denmark

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fv4wndsuylqn7f...4.jpg?dl=0