The changing thickness of manuals

[Matt Agajanian]

Hi all.

Over the last few weeks, I’ve added about four new calculators to my collection—Casio, Sharp, and a TI on the way. I’m noticing that manuals are now these road atlas multi-fold format. Yes, some come with notepad format manual’s with 50+ pages. On the other hand, why are manuals of the road atlas multi-fold (one example of each feature) format instead of the manual style we all know & love?

[brouhaha]

(12-01-2022 04:22 AM)Matt Agajanian Wrote:  why are manuals of the road atlas multi-fold (one example of each feature) format instead of the manual style we all know & love?

Because it's cheaper to make.

[Matt Agajanian]

Makes senses. Now you got me thinking. I guess that since we have YouTube, here, Facebook, etc., those have replaced user manuals. I miss those humorous examples HP manuals are famous for.

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

(12-01-2022 04:22 AM)Matt Agajanian Wrote:  ... instead of the manual style we all know & love?

Define "we" :-) I was so glad when instruction manuals in pdf format became standard some 10 years ago. Not only for calculators but for everything else as well, from digital cameras (my current one's manual has more than 1000 pages), cars, hard-disk receivers to software packages. My favorite video editing software "DaVinci Resolve" comes with a "beginners guide" that already has 470 pages - so far I did not even bother to download the full manual because I will never find the time to work my way through it.

My bookshelves almost break through the floor from the weight of all those paper manuals (*) collected over several decades - and when I need to look something up quickly I usually am totally lost.
On my iPad it takes me 5 seconds to pick out the right manual and another 10 to find the page that I need.

I do not want paper manuals. Never ever again. I am sure that there are comprehensive manuals for your newly acquired calculators on the manufacturers sites in pdf format that go far beyond those folded paper sheets.

Regards
Max

(*) Plus the weight of all the dust that has been deposited on top of all the manuals ;-)

[Garth Wilson]

In many ways, paper manuals are better, and I definitely prefer them; but I realize they cost money to print and ship. Anytime I get serious about a new microcontroller, bluetooth module, or even one of Angel's modules, I email it to the local UPS Store which has some office services, and get it printed, then I put it in a binder. Hundreds of pages' worth sometimes. I need to be able to make my notes, cross-references, underlining, add my stickies, etc.. Then I only use the .pdf on rare occasion for digital searches. I have about 50 shelf-feet of manuals, data books, catalogs, text books, etc.; and while they take half of one of the walls of my office, and although I know that some of them may never get opened again, I know that if I get rid of a bunch, next week or next month I'll need one of those that was in the group I got rid of.

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

(12-01-2022 10:41 AM)Garth Wilson Wrote:  I need to be able to make my notes, cross-references, underlining, add my stickies, etc..

As (mainly) a collector of calculators I would never do that ;-) Rather leave the manuals in their original unopened cellophane shrink wrap, like for example with my HP-15C Limited Edition. That unopened manual alone is probably worth more than all the calculators together which our thread starter is writing about.
BTW: Most pdf readers offer funtions like making notes and annotations.

Regards
Max

[Jeff_Birt]

(12-01-2022 10:41 AM)Garth Wilson Wrote:  I need to be able to make my notes, cross-references, underlining, add my stickies, etc.. Then I only use the .pdf on rare occasion for digital searches.

I love it when I find an old manual or book that someone has made notes in, or left slips of paper with notes inside. A manual in decent condition but 'well loved' with lots of use. It provides a bit of personality to it, a glimpse into what the original owner was interested in. You just don't get that with a PDF.

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

(12-01-2022 01:06 PM)Jeff_Birt Wrote:  I love it when I find an old manual or book that someone has made notes in...

Only if that persons happens to be a Nobel prize laureate like here :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB9SiWCmgaI&t

Unfortunately I have yet to come across such a book or calculator manual.

Regards
Max

[KeithB]

I used to say that the advantage of a paper manual was that you could read it in the bathroom. But now with phones and e-readers that is not that much of a consideration.

[Jeff_Birt]

(12-01-2022 01:51 PM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  Only if that persons happens to be a Nobel prize laureate like here :-)

Regards
Max

It matters not who they are/were. I bought a lot of Sharp PC-1500 items and found a notebook of someone who was trying to learn machine code programming. A letter he had written to someone for help and the response received. It was a nice glimpse of the past.

[Garth Wilson]

(12-01-2022 11:01 AM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  BTW: Most pdf readers offer funtions like making notes and annotations.

There's still the problem of juggling lots of windows on the monitor or trying to do the equivalent of keeping fingers in several places in the book that I'm comparing while simultaneously having source code or a PCB layout visible, and so forth. Been there, done that. It just doesn't work as well. Maybe if I had lots of high-res monitors, like our son who worked for a managed-services provider and had five monitors at one point (although he says than for him it was mostly for the amusement of showing it could be done)...

[Garth Wilson]

(12-01-2022 02:21 PM)KeithB Wrote:  I used to say that the advantage of a paper manual was that you could read it in the bathroom. But now with phones and e-readers that is not that much of a consideration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR4mlLiyjYo

[KeithB]

Many folks where I work have 4 monitors. However, that is for two computers hooked to two *very* separate networks.

[JimP]

There is something satisfying about having a paper manual in book form, but the most important aspect of any manual, electronic or otherwise, is the indexing. This may be where PDF files are superior -- if you can't find the word you're looking for in the hard copy index, it can be a bit of a slog to find the relevant section. But I did always appreciate the old fashioned HP manuals -- and yes, even the old Microsoft ones too.

[rprosperi]

I use calculator manuals in broadly 2 different ways. 1. To learn the model (or perhaps just some feature) and to either create and test programs or work some sample exercises, and 2. To lookup some specific feature or command, parameters, spelling, etc.

For the former, nothing beats a physical manual, preferably spiral-bound so it will sit flat while I press buttons and write code and numbers. HP's manuals up to the 41C/CV are the best of this type, with logical step-by-step build of the concepts, real-world examples, often humorous or clever character names, and worked out examples.

For the latter, a PDF searchable file with both Table of Contents and topical Index is absolutely the best choice as it allows rapid search, cross-reference and even print-out of specific sections if needed for more thoughtful study. These files can also go wherever you go on a laptop, thumb drive or phone. Often there are also large well thought-out and well-documented programs provided which can be easily copied and the downloaded into most machines, without having to key them in manually.

So, for me, the best answer is to have both types of manuals, whenever you can. You just can't be too prepared for HP encounters of all types...

[John Galt]

Nearly every time I picked up a manual to look up a function or learn how to do something, I would learn completely unrelated things I wasn't looking for. Leafing through a manual would invariably cause me to stumble upon things I would remember later: "oh, that's a better way of doing what I wanted to do."

PDFs are no substitute for developing that kind of knowledge. They excel only at searching for something you already know exists.

[EugeneNine]

I stopped writing in books/manuals after college because I found that my notes would smear or bleed through, newer/thinner paper I suppose and my handwriting is terrible.
I started making notes on other paper and putting it in the book/manual, I'd hunt and buy good paper and pens/pencils. Now a days 24lb or heavier inkjet printer paper works best.
I've evolved to where I'll make a document for whatever project/task I'm doing and type my notes along the way with references to the page in the manual.

[Jeff_Birt]

(12-03-2022 09:42 PM)John Galt Wrote:  Nearly every time I picked up a manual to look up a function or learn how to do something, I would learn completely unrelated things I wasn't looking for. Leafing through a manual would invariably cause me to stumble upon things I would remember later: "oh, that's a better way of doing what I wanted to do."

PDFs are no substitute for developing that kind of knowledge. They excel only at searching for something you already know exists.

This reminds me of someone saying he like real physical magazines about electronics as he would read through the whole thing, since he bought it, and learn things he never would have searched for or known to search for online.

[Albert Chan]

It is not really about paper or "plastics".
Manual thickness goes down. (if there is any at all)

Where did all the documentation go?

Quote:If you cut back on product doc and customers don't complain, there's a temptation to keep cutting.
Eventually you end up with software engineers writing bits of doc because all the tech writers were laid off ...

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

(12-07-2022 06:41 PM)Albert Chan Wrote:  Eventually you end up with software engineers writing bits of doc because all the tech writers were laid off ...

Maybe. But on the other hand, the need for documentation is not as big as it used to be. Since many years, Apple does not supply any (visible) documentation with their products (computers, phones, tablets) because they spend a lot of money to create an intuitive user interface. I have never read a single line of manual for any Apple product (and I converted to the Macintosh over 30 years ago). The same applies to most modern consumer products - if you have used one smartphone you can operate every smartphone. The differences have become really minuscule. The same with cars - who wants to read the operating manual of a rental car? They are all designed in a way to be used without any instructions. With my present car the only time I had to look into the manual, which I had downloaded to my iPad even before going to the dealer to collect the car, was to find out how to disable the annoying automatic windshield wipers...

Regards
Max