Sharp CE-150 printer/cassette interface questions

[polbit]

There doesn't appear to be any English-based forums for these, so I hope I'm not overusing HP museum forums with all these Sharp questions...

I have purchased few of these to work on, and all behave the same way (after removing the old NiCad pack), with a 1.5A 9V charger:

- When I turn on my Sharp PC-1500, the printer head moves back and forth few times, then I get the Check 6 error. That's a battery error. It won't accept LPRINT - Error 78 - again battery error.

- The paper advance button does nothing. In fact I can't make it move other than the head - no pen change mode, etc.

- The cassette interface works fine.

Do I need to replace the battery to make the printer work at all, or do all have the gears broken?

As far as the battery, other than trying to solder 5 AA Nimh cells, has anyone found a pre-made pack in the 3-2 shape?

[Jeff_Birt]

The lack of paper feed is very common. The printers use two small stepper motors with small plastic pinion gears. These gears all crack. I did have some brass replacements made up. Link to video about installation below. I believe I mention in the video the problem of the spring-loaded anti-backlash gear hub cracking. I have a new video coming out tomorrow which highlights this problem (will post link tomorrow.)

I may have come up with a way to make the cracked anti-backlash gear work using a commonly available spring clamp for mineature tubing. Parts on the way to test the idea. Will update with results.

Second video link is a video which covers the issue with trying to use battery powered gear without a battery pack. In the case of your CE-150 you would want a lower voltage, higher current power adapter. The battery pack puts a load on the power adapter. dropping the voltage, the rest of the system sees. The pack is also able to handle the large surge currents the printer demands. A small power adapter that is supplying power though a current limiting resistor (part of pack charging circuit) in the CE-150 might not be able to handle the load.

Third video link covers how to build battery packs with tabbed cells. If you don't have a spot welder this is the way to go. I have since bought a <$100 spot welder which makes the job even easier. I 3D printed some cell holders for AA and AA cells which make the job much easier.

Don't mean to 'spam' everyone with videos but the reason I make them is to share what I have learned.

[Jeff_Birt]

Had to separate video links per 'da rules'

[Jeff_Birt]

[polbit]

Thanks Jeff, great information. I already have your awesome Backpack for Tandy 100, and just placed the order for the brass gears! Wish I had your DIY skills, but let's see what I can do

[robve]

(01-28-2023 01:51 AM)polbit Wrote:  Thanks Jeff, great information. I already have your awesome Backpack for Tandy 100, and just placed the order for the brass gears! Wish I had your DIY skills, but let's see what I can do

I replaced the pinion gears on my CE-150 not so long ago. It is not difficult to do. I didn't know for sure what C clamp Jeff used in his video, but it turned out to be a 2 inch (or 2 1/2 inch) C clamp with the clamp head sawed off that works best. With a bit of patience, the brass pinion gears slide on the axis snuggly by turning the C clamp slowly. I just cut the old gears off with a sharp utility cutter (actually a model kit "nipper"), instead of removing the larger gears to get the pinion gears off. Very satisfied with the result and the brass pinion gears work great. I used a tiny bit of gear lubricant from a slot car set. This specially-formulated lithium grease lubricant protects metal-on-plastic (nylon) gears, so I thought I can't hurt to use a tiny bit.

   

Next I have to open up my PC-2500, which has a larger Alps printer to do the same. The roller doesn't move as it should be, so I assume the pinion gears are cracked too and are slipping or blocking.

PS. I turned out that the PC-2500 has a higher quality Alps printer with larger motors and stronger gears. The gears appear to be fine, no cracks. I think I may have had an issue where the vertical movement of the paper was jammed, which has nothing to do with the roller but probably because the paper roll is in a tight space and got stuck. Using less paper works or taking the printer cover off.

- Rob

[polbit]

(01-28-2023 03:15 AM)robve Wrote:  

(01-28-2023 01:51 AM)polbit Wrote:  Thanks Jeff, great information. I already have your awesome Backpack for Tandy 100, and just placed the order for the brass gears! Wish I had your DIY skills, but let's see what I can do

I replaced the pinion gears on my CE-150 not so long ago. It is not difficult to do. I didn't know for sure what C clamp Jeff used in his video, but it turned out to be a 2 inch (or 2 1/2 inch) C clamp with the clamp head sawed off that works best. With a bit of patience, the brass pinion gears slide on the axis snuggly by turning the C clamp slowly. I just cut the old gears off with a sharp utility cutter (actually a model kit "nipper"), instead of removing the larger gears to get the pinion gears off. Very satisfied with the result and the brass pinion gears work great. I used a tiny bit of gear lubricant from a slot car set. This specially-formulated lithium grease lubricant protects metal-on-vinyl gears, so I thought I can't hurt to use a tiny bit.

Next I have to open up my PC-2500, which has a larger Alps printer to do the same. The roller doesn't move as it should be, so I assume the pinion gears are cracked too and are slipping or blocking.

- Rob

Looking forward to finally see a working Sharp plotter!

The more I dig into the 1500, the more intriguing it is becoming. Quite a cool little machine, and with some real development behind it. Not quite HP 71b level, but still fun. Getting CE-150 fully operational is just icing on the cake, I have a bunch of NOS pens from Best Electronics from an Atari 1027 plotter...

Speaking of interesting, 1500 and 1500A returning two different results (was writing a little screen erase routine...):

1500A - new ROM version:
71 AND (NOT 8) returns 71 correctly

1500 - old ROM version:
71 AND (NOT 8) returns 0(??)
but
NOT 8 returns -9 correctly
71 AND -9 returns 71 correctly

[robve]

(01-28-2023 03:42 PM)polbit Wrote:  Speaking of interesting, 1500 and 1500A returning two different results (was writing a little screen erase routine...):

1500A - new ROM version:
71 AND (NOT 8) returns 71 correctly

1500 - old ROM version:
71 AND (NOT 8) returns 0(??)
but
NOT 8 returns -9 correctly
71 AND -9 returns 71 correctly

There is quite a bit of German literature on the PC-1500(A) as well as downloadable software from http://www.pc1500.com and http://www.pc-1500.info and a lot of books/magazines with code listings for the PC-1500 and PC-1600 at https://www.sharp-pc-1600.de/Eng_Downloa...echer.html

It is known that the old A1 ROM has a couple of issues. "Tips + Tricks Handbuch für den Sharp PC-1500(A)" (see link above) spends several pages explaining this.

To check your ROM version, execute two PEEKs:

PEEK &C443 and PEEK &C5BD
56, 129 -> A01
59, 129 -> A03
59, 74 -> A04

The old ROM A01 which has issues appears to be a rare sight, I believe, so most PC-1500(A) specimens encountered in the wild will be fine.

PS. there is an interesting document "ROM-Unterprogramme I" that lists noe less than 128 CALL addresses for those who want to venture into machine code programming on the PC-1500: http://www.pc-1500.info/category/cat_manuals/

PPS. the pc-1500.info site also has magazines in English. For example, STATUS 1500 is an excellent UK series on the PC-1500(A): http://www.pc-1500.info/?s=STATUS+1500

- Rob

[Xorand]

Welcome to the club. The PC-1500(A) and Tandy PC-2 are my favorite of the pocket computers. Still readily available and fairly powerful even compared to many later iterations of pocket computers from both Casio and Sharp.

I have several brass gears I picked up from Jeff_Birt and have a nicely working CE-150 and a Tandy Printer/Cassette Interface (just a rebranded CE-150). I have them paired with a PC-1500A and a PC-2, respectively.

I rebuilt my battery packs with solder tab batteries, but recently picked up a spot welder and another box of batteries to rebuild the battery packs a little more compactly. The battery compartment is pretty tight and stray solder tabs tend to take up additional room if not placed just so.

[polbit]

(01-30-2023 02:21 PM)Xorand Wrote:  Welcome to the club. The PC-1500(A) and Tandy PC-2 are my favorite of the pocket computers. Still readily available and fairly powerful even compared to many later iterations of pocket computers from both Casio and Sharp.

I have several brass gears I picked up from Jeff_Birt and have a nicely working CE-150 and a Tandy Printer/Cassette Interface (just a rebranded CE-150). I have them paired with a PC-1500A and a PC-2, respectively.

I rebuilt my battery packs with solder tab batteries, but recently picked up a spot welder and another box of batteries to rebuild the battery packs a little more compactly. The battery compartment is pretty tight and stray solder tabs tend to take up additional room if not placed just so.

Well, I just got my brass gears, so tomorrow is restoration day I also am doing a Sharp and Tandy set!

I think the 1500 is probably my favorite as well right now. At least until I can get my hands on a 1600!

[sideburn]

Wow good timing on finding this form.
I just got a PC-1500 and the CE-150 cassette interface and out of the box it gave me a CHECK 6 error. I took it apart and as expected the NIcD batteries were corroded so I pulled them out and soldered up a new set of 5 AA size nicd batteries, confirmed 6 volts, put them in the printer an still a CHECK 6 error. Even with the 9v ac adapter plugged in and charging I get the error. The board looks prestine. The whole set came in the box and looks barely used at all.

I’m not sure what to look for to figure out what the problem is.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

[sideburn]

It turns out it is the pinion gears. It’s causing the carriage to jam and so the pen mech doesn’t rotate and click the switch on the left telling it which pen it’s on. I slid the pinion gear back so it doesn’t touch any gears and manually spin the pin chamber 4 times as it was starting up and then it came up normal and paper feed and print commands worked. So now I need to either mold some gears or find the replacements. We’re there some brass ones available?

[sideburn]

** I ended up using one of the cracked ones as a source (after pulling it off the shaft it closed up good enough to work as a cast) and make a silicone mold and then resin cast some new ones. Worked perfect.

[Jeff_Birt]

That came out well. Let us know how it lasts. One of the issues I heard about with 3D printed replicas was that did not always fit or last long. From same printer/batch some would be OK and others not.

I suspect part of the issue is the resins used for 3D printing are still fairly new. Casting resins have been around longer and may be more robust.

[sideburn]

(04-09-2023 07:37 PM)Jeff_Birt Wrote:  That came out well. Let us know how it lasts. One of the issues I heard about with 3D printed replicas was that did not always fit or last long. From same printer/batch some would be OK and others not.

I suspect part of the issue is the resins used for 3D printing are still fairly new. Casting resins have been around longer and may be more robust.

Yeah different resin. 3d printer resins are UV plus a 3d printed part has layers that can beak. I have a resin printer and the parts are much more brittle than the casted epoxy resin.Ive use this technique before to fix other old toys and games.

One thing I was wondering about the brass pinion gears is if they might wear out the plastic gears.

The only other issue with my plotter is the other spring loaded gear on the paper feed side has one of the tabs broken off so i am unable to use the spring to keep tension. If it affects the printing I might cast another set of those gears too off another plotter I have ordered. Unfortunately I cannot test this yet until I get some pens. I will call Brad at best and see if I can get some.

[Jeff_Birt]

Nylon gears often have a bit of glass in them. This increases the strength but makes them brittle. They will break/crack before yielding. This also makes them a little abrasive. A filled nylon gear running against a steel gear will wear out the steel.

Brass is a bit 'slippery' but will still wear when used with a filled nylon gear. Given the limited RPM/torque it is a good choice for the application. I would not worry about it wearing out the plastic gears.

[sideburn]

(04-09-2023 10:08 PM)Jeff_Birt Wrote:  Nylon gears often have a bit of glass in them. This increases the strength but makes them brittle. They will break/crack before yielding. This also makes them a little abrasive. A filled nylon gear running against a steel gear will wear out the steel.

Brass is a bit 'slippery' but will still wear when used with a filled nylon gear. Given the limited RPM/torque it is a good choice for the application. I would not worry about it wearing out the plastic gears.

Ahh ok my thoughts were coming from metal pinions agains plastic / maybe nylon gears on high speed / high torque r/c cars and heard that was a bad idea.

[sideburn]

I just got some sets of pens from Best and he recommends freezing or refrigerating the pens when not in use.

Anyone have any info on this do these pens tend to dry out? Do I even need to worry about it? I get mixed info online about freezing inks.

[Duane Hess]

(04-14-2023 04:16 AM)sideburn Wrote:  I just got some sets of pens from Best and he recommends freezing or refrigerating the pens when not in use.

Anyone have any info on this do these pens tend to dry out? Do I even need to worry about it? I get mixed info online about freezing inks.

I have a Canon X-710 which uses the same mechanical "guts" as the CE-150. Been looking for good sources of pens. Is "Best" a museum member or a company? Would you elaborate on how to contact Best?

Don't have a clue about freezing but you might look at the following link:
http://tandy.wiki/CGP-115

on the Tandy Radio Shack/TRS-80 CGP-115 printer/plotter. The same mechanism is used in this brand also.

Towards the bottom is a section titled Pen/Ink Storage with their suggestion. Above that section is one which concerns refilling pens. If what they say is true, the ink is water based. Which makes one wonder if repeated freezing might damage the internal fibers or the case due to ice expansion.

There is also a link for purchasing new pens, never used it, don't know if it works. Sounded a bit pricey.

Interestingly, towards the top are links to PDFs for the operation and service manuals. Much of the service manual, especially electronics/interfaces might be Tandy specific. But there are sections on the mechanical plotter itself.

[sideburn]

(04-23-2023 11:19 PM)Duane Hess Wrote:  

(04-14-2023 04:16 AM)sideburn Wrote:  I just got some sets of pens from Best and he recommends freezing or refrigerating the pens when not in use.

Anyone have any info on this do these pens tend to dry out? Do I even need to worry about it? I get mixed info online about freezing inks.

I have a Canon X-710 which uses the same mechanical "guts" as the CE-150. Been looking for good sources of pens. Is "Best" a museum member or a company? Would you elaborate on how to contact Best?

Don't have a clue about freezing but you might look at the following link:
http://tandy.wiki/CGP-115

on the Tandy Radio Shack/TRS-80 CGP-115 printer/plotter. The same mechanism is used in this brand also.

Towards the bottom is a section titled Pen/Ink Storage with their suggestion. Above that section is one which concerns refilling pens. If what they say is true, the ink is water based. Which makes one wonder if repeated freezing might damage the internal fibers or the case due to ice expansion.

There is also a link for purchasing new pens, never used it, don't know if it works. Sounded a bit pricey.

Interestingly, towards the top are links to PDFs for the operation and service manuals. Much of the service manual, especially electronics/interfaces might be Tandy specific. But there are sections on the mechanical plotter itself.

Best electronics has tons of NOS Atari computer stuff: https://www.best-electronics-ca.com/

His name is brad and you have to call him to place an order. Very old skool. He’s been in business for 30+ years.

The Atari 1020 plotter also uses the same alps plotter.

They are on this page: https://www.best-electronics-ca.com/laser_printers.htm

“ Atari 1020 Color Plotter color pen set (4 colors) CO61420-01 $9.95 Good News! Our Atari shipping department recently broke down one of the 1,000's pallets of Atari goods we got out of the local Atari Sunnyvale Warehouses years ago and stored away. They found a few small boxes of new Atari 1020 Color pen sets. So we are raising the current Limit of one 1020 color set per customer to a total of 4 Atari 1020 Color pen sets per customer.

See Best All Atari Rev. 10 Catalog page 148 for an Atari Information Tip to extend the useful life of Atari 1020 Plotter pens.

Atari 1020 Black pen set (4 Black pens) CO61420-03 $9.95 (limit 4 sets 1020 Black pen sets)”


Contact Information:

Our hours of operation are Monday through Friday 1:30pm to 5:00pm PST
(International Customers when calling in to us, remember your local day may be a day ahead or behind us depending on your location in the world.)


Current Pacific Standard Time is:

Telephone:
(408) 278-1070 (Hours above)
Caller ID # required on all phone calls to Best