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Arno K · 06-17-2015, 08:53 AM

This is want I saw tonight:https://www.taschenrechner.de/shop/artik...hikrechner
Seems Hp calculators have no future in Germany.
Arno

KlaasKuperus · 06-17-2015, 09:28 AM

(06-17-2015 08:53 AM)Arno K Wrote: This is want I saw tonight:https://www.taschenrechner.de/shop/artik...hikrechner
Seems Hp calculators have no future in Germany.
Arno

Don't take this personal, but I think it's funny how one dealer's approach to Prime (that is based on the first firmware bugs) is making you think that HP calculators have no future in Germany.

jebem · 06-17-2015, 11:03 AM

(06-17-2015 08:53 AM)Arno K Wrote: This is want I saw tonight:https://www.taschenrechner.de/shop/artik...hikrechner
Seems Hp calculators have no future in Germany.

Sad news....
Apparently they stop selling HP-50G and Prime machines due to "lack of demand" and "bugs in HP prime".

Let's hope that, if and when HP business units are eventually acquired/merged after the ongoing company reorganization, the calculator division can receive more attention.

For instance, we saw many occidental companies from different business areas being acquired by Chinese organizations and after a while these well know acquired brands starting coming out with new products that are selling quite well.

ww63 · (This post was last modified: 06-17-2015 01:14 PM by ww63.)

The "bugs in prime" they are referring are the ones from the first firmware releases. Other dealers like dynatech.de still sell both calculators.

I think, the problem with the "lack of demand" is, that Schools here in germany mostly recommend TI or Casio. When I went to school HP calculators were much to expensive for general use in schools (there was the 41C a new product).
And many teachers and pupil didn't like the RPN.

Wolfgang

Marcio · 06-17-2015, 12:49 PM

(06-17-2015 11:03 AM)jebem Wrote: Sad news....
Apparently they stop selling HP-50G and Prime machines due to "lack of demand" and "bugs in HP prime".

This is not news to me! The lack of demand is also HP's fault.

Marcio · (This post was last modified: 06-17-2015 02:31 PM by Marcio.)

(06-17-2015 12:47 PM)ww63 Wrote: I think, the problem with the "lack of demand" is, that Schools here in germany mostly recommend TI or Casio.
Wolfgang

Only in Germany? I think this is the rule pretty much everywhere. Casio dominates the market in Brazil. Pick any scientific calculator from HP, oh wait, there is only one, the 35s, and it costs 3 times as much as any Casio in the same category and, get this, the Casio will always offer more features.

What does that tell you?

I fear there will be a day in which most HP calculator users will be found in theses forums.

EDIT: This is not a criticism on the HP calc development team.

Marcelo Vanti · 06-17-2015, 03:58 PM

Hello
I would like to make a few remarks.
I have one HP PRIME since a year now (and my wife have one, too), and based on my experience , is a great calculator, that's also I tell to my students . There are also many bugs , it's true , especially in the first ROM versions.
Most of my students use the HP 50G , but some have already purchased the PRIME .
I have seen many reviews comparing the PRIME with 50G , mostly unfavorable. I also have a 50G and had a 49G+ , which was released with a lot of bugs and an awful keyboard ,as well as the 49G, target of many complains since its launch. I see the 50G as a legacy of these other calculators .
The PRIME is the result of a different paradigm that the RPL calculators, but as far as I could see , it is potentially superior whether pedagogically , whether in engineering applications.
The latest revisions of the operating system have confirmed my expectations .
Thank you for your patience and sorry for my bad English .

Tugdual · 06-17-2015, 04:14 PM

(06-17-2015 03:58 PM)Marcelo Vanti Wrote: The PRIME is the result of a different paradigm that the RPL calculators, but as far as I could see , it is potentially superior ... in engineering applications.

Can you elaborate on that?
I haven't seen that.

Marcelo Vanti · 06-17-2015, 04:27 PM

(06-17-2015 04:14 PM)Tugdual Wrote:
(06-17-2015 03:58 PM)Marcelo Vanti Wrote: The PRIME is the result of a different paradigm that the RPL calculators, but as far as I could see , it is potentially superior ... in engineering applications.
Can you elaborate on that?
I haven't seen that.

As an example , I teach antenna theory on a Brazilian university, and wrote some programs to 50G in this domain, for myself and for my students . So far , there is nothing that I have not been able to do more easily with the PRIME , although my little experience with it .

Tugdual · (This post was last modified: 06-18-2015 07:57 AM by Tugdual.)

(06-17-2015 04:27 PM)Marcelo Vanti Wrote:
(06-17-2015 04:14 PM)Tugdual Wrote: Can you elaborate on that?
I haven't seen that.
As an example , I teach antenna theory on a Brazilian university, and wrote some programs to 50G in this domain, for myself and for my students . So far , there is nothing that I have not been able to do more easily with the PRIME , although my little experience with it .

Yes the Prime is programmable but the basic almost imposes the use of a PC while I find RPL more adapted to a calculator keyboard entry.
Anyway I'm not sure that this is what makes a calculator adapted to a scientific purpose. I think features such as MES, easy but powerful unit of measurement, some other features like isoclines and more generally the ease of use of keyboard make a difference. However when there is a need above a level of complexity and/or more volume, engineers would immediately use a different tool, i.e. a PC and specific softwares.
I'm not in education and I understand that it is your interest; may be the Prime is good to teach science.

akmon · 06-18-2015, 06:45 AM

What would make me really happy is having a built-in emulator (HP48) for example. The main advantage is thousand of programs for many years of developing would be available for the Prime!. I know our target is adapt those programs to this new language, but it will take many years. My question is: is it physically possible to make an built-in emulator (hardware capabilities)? Is there a remote posibility that this idea would be really done by HP Prime developers, or am I dreaming?

Thomas_Sch · 06-18-2015, 08:19 AM

(06-18-2015 06:45 AM)akmon Wrote: What would make me really happy is having a built-in emulator (HP48) for example. The main advantage is thousand of programs for many years of developing would be available for the Prime!. I know our target is adapt those programs to this new language, but it will take many years. My question is: is it physically possible to make an built-in emulator (hardware capabilities)? Is there a remote posibility that this idea would be really done by HP Prime developers, or am I dreaming?

great idea!
+1

Tugdual · 06-18-2015, 09:42 AM

(06-18-2015 06:45 AM)akmon Wrote: What would make me really happy is having a built-in emulator (HP48) for example. The main advantage is thousand of programs for many years of developing would be available for the Prime!. I know our target is adapt those programs to this new language, but it will take many years. My question is: is it physically possible to make an built-in emulator (hardware capabilities)? Is there a remote posibility that this idea would be really done by HP Prime developers, or am I dreaming?

U don't want a 48 emulator, you want a Saturn emulator.
The Hp 50g being a Saturn emulator, I don't see why the Prime couldn't do the same.

But... you wouldn't have the right keyboard.

akmon · 06-18-2015, 10:03 AM

Exactly, Saturn emulator.
AS for the keyboard, most of the keys are common on both calculators. For those that there is no equivalent, it will be useful with a long key press appears a popup menu on the screen with some options, for example.

Tugdual · 06-18-2015, 12:08 PM

(06-18-2015 10:03 AM)akmon Wrote: Exactly, Saturn emulator.
AS for the keyboard, most of the keys are common on both calculators. For those that there is no equivalent, it will be useful with a long key press appears a popup menu on the screen with some options, for example.

This being said I remember some Hp representative mentioning that some parts of the 50g were actually compiled in native processor binary for the sake of performance.
Anyway, still no major show stopper here...

Marcelo Vanti · 06-18-2015, 12:13 PM

(06-17-2015 07:00 PM)Tugdual Wrote: I think features such as MES, easy but powerful unit of measurement, some other features like isoclines and more generally the ease of use of keyboard make a difference.

that's because I wrote the " potentially " above. I believe a MES could be programmed in PRIME , like other tools.

debrouxl · 06-18-2015, 05:35 PM

Technically, the Prime could totally do it.
However, to date, its raw processing power remains completely untapped by the community of users and developers, even though we've known for over a year and a half that third-party firmware is possible.

akmon · (This post was last modified: 06-18-2015 07:31 PM by akmon.)

I just like dreaming of this kind of app (sorry , it´s a homework with paint, no photoshop):
I think there is room enough for inserting those softkeys neccesary for the emulator the Prime don´t have.

[Image: emu%20hp50%20en%20hp%20prime_zpsbbtuwnzj.jpg]

Arno K · 06-18-2015, 08:20 PM

I actually like the idea of having full RPN/RPL support on the prime, especially after I today wanted to try something with units on my old HP49G+ (which didn't work on the Prime in Cas, but in Home and RPN) and it went without any problem, but at that occasion its second key went defective, the first bad functioning "On"-key made me buy the Prime, but today Enter got loose and so the device is nearly unusable, as it registers from none till 3 or 4 presses at a time. An emulated Saturn-processor is a good idea but for me it would suffice to have full access to all Prime-functions and user-programs from RPN-Entry-mode (without telling the interpreter how many arguments it has to take from the stack) and with a complete set of stack-commands.
Arno

Tugdual · 06-18-2015, 08:53 PM

Technically, a Saturn emulation is just a quick and dirty solution to make the best use of existing 48 library and reduce commercialization cycle, like Hp did for the 49/50g. A complete rewrite in C++ would be a much better investment for the sake of future portability and amazing speed. I don't think Hp is ready to invest a cent in this direction though.