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spiff72 · (This post was last modified: 06-10-2023 11:05 PM by spiff72.)

If anyone is interested, I have the ability to make either the WP34S or the WP31S overlays. I have a design set up with my Cricut machine, and can print/cut 4 on a sheet.

Attached is a photo of the design applied to a 30b. (My preferred version is the one shown on the left, with the matte laminating sheet to reduce gloss. The one on the right is a glossy avery laminating sheet, and I didn't like this one as it was too reflective).

If interested, shoot me a PM. I can send one sheet worth (4 complete overlays) via USPS for $10 (within the US). This allows for any possible "oops" when applying them!

johnb · 06-11-2023, 07:27 AM

(06-05-2023 03:25 AM)Eric Rechlin Wrote:
(06-03-2023 02:53 PM)johnb Wrote: (BTW, the reason I mentioned "matte finish" is that I have both a WP34s and a WP31s. The 34 has a matte overlay, but my 31's overlay is somewhat shiny... which I've discovered is VERY annoying!)

A question for you related to this -- how glossy it is is largely determined by how thick of a layer of protective finish I put on it. Was the 31s overlay more durable than the 34s overlay? Since it was more shiny I would hope it was, because of the extra coat of spray I presumably used. If it wasn't then maybe I should save the hassle and put less clearcoat on the overlays when I resume making them (though honestly it's tricky and the vinyl I am using now is inherently slightly shinier than the vinyl I used to use).

I haven't used both enough to know for sure, but just judging by the seat of my pants (can I call it "engineer's intuition"?) the 31s overlay probably IS more durable.

That having been said, personally I'd rather deal with having to renew my overlay more often and have the matte finish -- that finish (to me) is really really nice and makes the machine more pleasant to use. Most of what I do during the workday, my 31s is sufficient for, yet I find myself reaching more often for the 34s (or one of my HP's) just because of the glare on the 31s keyboard.

Thanks for asking!

And, I'm sure there are probably other "WP" afficionados here that feel exactly the opposite to the way I feel, so you might want to take a little survey to see which camp predominates...

spiff72 · (This post was last modified: 06-21-2023 12:32 PM by spiff72.)

Just posting this again to see if anyone is interested...

I've gotten two orders so far, along with a third that never replied. I have plenty of materials to make more!

(See post a few messages above for photo of the latest "matte" finish version).

Thanks

(06-10-2023 11:04 PM)spiff72 Wrote: If anyone is interested, I have the ability to make either the WP34S or the WP31S overlays. I have a design set up with my Cricut machine, and can print/cut 4 on a sheet.

Attached is a photo of the design applied to a 30b. (My preferred version is the one shown on the left, with the matte laminating sheet to reduce gloss. The one on the right is a glossy avery laminating sheet, and I didn't like this one as it was too reflective).

If interested, shoot me a PM. I can send one sheet worth (4 complete overlays) via USPS for $10 (within the US). This allows for any possible "oops" when applying them!

Martin Hepperle · 06-21-2023, 03:30 PM

(06-10-2023 11:04 PM)spiff72 Wrote: [...]
Attached is a photo of the design applied to a 30b. (My preferred version is the one shown on the left, with the matte laminating sheet to reduce gloss. The one on the right is a glossy avery laminating sheet, and I didn't like this one as it was too reflective).
[...]

While I do not need these overlays, I am interested in the manufacturing technique because from time to time I need something similar to modify keyboards for old computers with replacement key caps. I am not planning to offer anything for sale.

Can you explain a bit more how your overlays are made?

I think some overlay producers spray paint with clear lacquer and you seem to use a clear film laminated on top of the printed self adhesive film?
generally I feel that spray painting is thinner, but may wear off faster than the laminated variant.
On the other hand, cutting the thicker laminated sandwich seems to be more difficult and may leave fuzzy edges.
How thin are the sheets you are using?

Thank you,
Martin

spiff72 · 06-21-2023, 03:46 PM

I can measure thicknesses later and let u know.

It is an inkjet printable adhesive backed vinyl with a self adhesive laminating sheet (with a matte finish). I print the sheet on my printer and then apply the lamination sheet, and then I cut them on a Cricut machine. (I bought the machine off Mercari for a nice price specifically for this purpose).

I have also done some templates for newRPL on the 50g and the Prime. If I ever get a DM42 I have a C47 template overlay created too.

I started out using a spray on acrylic coating but moved to a laminating sheet because they look nicer.

(06-21-2023 03:30 PM)Martin Hepperle Wrote:
(06-10-2023 11:04 PM)spiff72 Wrote: [...]
Attached is a photo of the design applied to a 30b. (My preferred version is the one shown on the left, with the matte laminating sheet to reduce gloss. The one on the right is a glossy avery laminating sheet, and I didn't like this one as it was too reflective).
[...]

While I do not need these overlays, I am interested in the manufacturing technique because from time to time I need something similar to modify keyboards for old computers with replacement key caps. I am not planning to offer anything for sale.

Can you explain a bit more how your overlays are made?

I think some overlay producers spray paint with clear lacquer and you seem to use a clear film laminated on top of the printed self adhesive film?
generally I feel that spray painting is thinner, but may wear off faster than the laminated variant.
On the other hand, cutting the thicker laminated sandwich seems to be more difficult and may leave fuzzy edges.
How thin are the sheets you are using?

Thank you,
Martin

spiff72 · 06-22-2023, 12:22 AM

I measured the vinyl I used and the laminating sheet:

Vinyl: 0.11mm thick
Laminating sheet: 0.08mm thick

(06-21-2023 03:30 PM)Martin Hepperle Wrote:
(06-10-2023 11:04 PM)spiff72 Wrote: [...]
Attached is a photo of the design applied to a 30b. (My preferred version is the one shown on the left, with the matte laminating sheet to reduce gloss. The one on the right is a glossy avery laminating sheet, and I didn't like this one as it was too reflective).
[...]

While I do not need these overlays, I am interested in the manufacturing technique because from time to time I need something similar to modify keyboards for old computers with replacement key caps. I am not planning to offer anything for sale.

Can you explain a bit more how your overlays are made?

I think some overlay producers spray paint with clear lacquer and you seem to use a clear film laminated on top of the printed self adhesive film?
generally I feel that spray painting is thinner, but may wear off faster than the laminated variant.
On the other hand, cutting the thicker laminated sandwich seems to be more difficult and may leave fuzzy edges.
How thin are the sheets you are using?

Thank you,
Martin

spiff72 · 06-22-2023, 04:09 AM

Hello all,

I am putting a pause on selling the labels I offered up recently because I have some concerns about the long term adhesion - especially the key labels. I am going to try some (much) more expensive vinyl stock here and see if it has stronger adhesion.

If these work out I will replace the ones I already sent out, but I will probably have to raise the prince (and maybe sell them as singles instead) due to the higher cost of materials.

I will update here (or start a new thread) when I have some more news.

Thanks!

johnb · 06-24-2023, 01:10 PM

(06-22-2023 04:09 AM)spiff72 Wrote: I am putting a pause on selling the labels I offered up recently because I have some concerns about the long term adhesion - especially the key labels. I am going to try some (much) more expensive vinyl stock here and see if it has stronger adhesion.

If these work out I will replace the ones I already sent out, but I will probably have to raise the prince\\\\\\price (and maybe sell them as singles instead) due to the higher cost of materials.

Spiff,

Let me applaud you on doing what I think is the right course of action. What's a key thing that HP calculator lovers all share with each other? An appreciation of well-made tools and a Job Well Done. And a realization that it comes with increased costs, and that those costs may be worth it.

brouhaha · 06-24-2023, 09:17 PM

(06-10-2023 11:04 PM)spiff72 Wrote: (My preferred version is the one shown on the left, with the matte laminating sheet to reduce gloss.

The matte one does look very good.

I've been experimenting with making Voyager (HP 1xC and SwissMicros DM1xL) overlays using a Silhouette Cameo 4. So far I'm using Silhouette brand printable vinyl sheets, which normally sell for $7.00 per pack of eight, but I was able to buy a bunch during one of their half price sales. I wasn't sure that the adhesive was going to be strong enough, but on one old (1990s) 12C, two weeks after applying the overlay it was harder than I expected to peel it back off. I have not yet tried putting vinyl stickers on the keys, and that's where I'm more concerned since those will be more prone to lateral pressure when the buttons are pressed.

I'm printing on an HP OfficeJet Pro 7740, but considering buying an Epson EcoTank. Note that all of the home & small office EcoTank use dye inos for the colors (and dye or pigment for black), but the Business EcoTank models use pigment for both color and black The pigment colors are said to be less vivid than the dye colors, but the pigment is supposed to last longer with less fading.

I was thinking about using some sort of spray acrylic, but I haven't identified any laminating material that was not glossy. I'd be very interested to know what you used for the matte finish, if you don't mind sharing that information.

If I was smart, I'd probably use Corel Draw or Affinity Designer for the artwork, but because I'm a masochist I've been writing a C++ program to generate PDF files, one for the printer and one for the cutter. I'm considering switching to generating SVG.

Eric Rechlin has given me a lot of advice on overlay topics, including materials, cutters, printers, and ink types, for which I am very grateful.

spiff72 · 06-24-2023, 10:03 PM

Thanks for your kind words!

I have started another thread to track progress on these:
https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-20113.html

I will be posting updates there...

(06-24-2023 01:10 PM)johnb Wrote:
(06-22-2023 04:09 AM)spiff72 Wrote: I am putting a pause on selling the labels I offered up recently because I have some concerns about the long term adhesion - especially the key labels. I am going to try some (much) more expensive vinyl stock here and see if it has stronger adhesion.

If these work out I will replace the ones I already sent out, but I will probably have to raise the prince\\\\\\price (and maybe sell them as singles instead) due to the higher cost of materials.

Spiff,

Let me applaud you on doing what I think is the right course of action. What's a key thing that HP calculator lovers all share with each other? An appreciation of well-made tools and a Job Well Done. And a realization that it comes with increased costs, and that those costs may be worth it.

Martin Hepperle · 06-25-2023, 07:22 AM

(06-22-2023 12:22 AM)spiff72 Wrote: I measured the vinyl I used and the laminating sheet:

Vinyl: 0.11mm thick
Laminating sheet: 0.08mm thick

Spiff,

thank you for these details - that's quite thin, which is good. The laminating sheet sounds good - plain printed labels wear off in a rather short time and spray paint is also a bit cumbersome to apply.

While I own a larger cutting plotter, it is not well suitable for these fine detail jobs because its knife orientation is not actuated - it is only a trailing knife.

Do these Cricut machines have a motorized knife?

Martin

spiff72 · 06-25-2023, 04:52 PM

My Cricut can use some motorized knife options. Mine came with the "fine point blade" and a roller knife (like a pizza cutter). The roller knife is geared to rotate. The fine point blade is a trailing knife blade, but it is very small, and the radius that it rotates about is probably less than 1-2mm. I have only ever used the fine point blade with mine. The roller knife is meant for fabric cutting (I think). There is also a blade offered that looks like an x-acto knife - this one uses a geared rotation mechanism.

This is the fine blade for reference:
https://www.amazon.com/Cricut-Fine-Point...B079MD6DCZ

(06-25-2023 07:22 AM)Martin Hepperle Wrote:
(06-22-2023 12:22 AM)spiff72 Wrote: I measured the vinyl I used and the laminating sheet:

Vinyl: 0.11mm thick
Laminating sheet: 0.08mm thick

Spiff,

thank you for these details - that's quite thin, which is good. The laminating sheet sounds good - plain printed labels wear off in a rather short time and spray paint is also a bit cumbersome to apply.

While I own a larger cutting plotter, it is not well suitable for these fine detail jobs because its knife orientation is not actuated - it is only a trailing knife.

Do these Cricut machines have a motorized knife?

Martin