Pioneer Proof of concept

[HP-Collection]

Got this Proof of Concept today.
Very nice, the battery terminals are complete different from the serial Pioneers.

Can anyone here help to find out for which computer this proof of concept was built?
Unfortunately, the contacts are not accessible and I can't do a ROM test. Unfortunately, the device is not executable.

[BruceH]

It's an HP 17B prototype based on similar images that have been posted before.

[J-F Garnier]

(01-21-2024 06:32 PM)BruceH Wrote:  It's an HP 17B prototype based on similar images that have been posted before.

It seems to be a quite definitive statement based on very vague references.

J-F

[BruceH]

I don't own the copyright to the original so won't repost the picture that I have. I'll see if I can get Google image search to find the original f it's still online somewhere.

If I can't find it on line then I have a name for the person who posted the original but no email so I'll need to search around for that and then ask permission.

[Didier Lachieze]

The HP-17b prototype pictures I’m aware of can be found here. There are several differences with the picture posted above, specifically regarding the math functions on the overlay.

Bruce, does your picture have the same math functions than the unit in this thread which looks to me more like a scientific than a financial calculator ?

[J-F Garnier]

(01-22-2024 06:55 PM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:  The HP-17b prototype pictures I’m aware of can be found here. There are several differences with the picture posted above, specifically regarding the math functions on the overlay.

Thanks for the link, Didier. Actually the Flickr account belongs to Keith Midson who is a member of this forum. His last post dates from 2017 and actually links to his Flickr collection site so I guess it's appropriate to mention it here.
His prototype looks indeed very similar to Matthias' machine, but not identical, so it's really interesting. Keith clearly relates it to the HP-17B (look at the prototype section), although there is no picture showing the prototype turned on.

We can also relate this prototype to the HP-17C prototype that is shown here (unfortunately a poor picture) and that has several common points with Keith's proto, so all in all we can associate it to the HP-17B.

J-F

[BruceH]

The picture I was thinking of is indeed one of Keith's.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/keithmidson/5521350173/

[J-F Garnier]

(01-19-2024 05:28 PM)HP-Collection Wrote:  Got this Proof of Concept today.
Very nice, the battery terminals are complete different from the serial Pioneers.

Unfortunately, the contacts are not accessible and I can't do a ROM test. Unfortunately, the device is not executable.

The batteries seem to be the same LR44 type as in the regular Pioneer series, but installed side by side horizontally.
Can you try to insert one battery to check if it fits?
I think the largest side of the battery (+ side) should be downwards.

If the proto could be turned on, it would be interesting !

J-F

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(01-22-2024 07:57 PM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  We can also relate this prototype to the HP-17C prototype that is shown here (unfortunately a poor picture) and that has several common points with Keith's proto, so all in all we can associate it to the HP-17B.

I hope this is a little better except the flashlight.

[rprosperi]

(01-23-2024 01:03 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  

(01-22-2024 07:57 PM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  We can also relate this prototype to the HP-17C prototype that is shown here (unfortunately a poor picture) and that has several common points with Keith's proto, so all in all we can associate it to the HP-17B.

I hope this is a little better except the flashlight.

Max!! Good to see you're back, you've been missed by the regulars here!!

I like the Collection tag at the bottom, a nice touch.

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(01-23-2024 01:33 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  

(01-23-2024 01:03 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  I hope this is a little better except the flashlight.

Max!! Good to see you're back, you've been missed by the regulars here!!

I like the Collection tag at the bottom, a nice touch.

Just taking a peek while at home...

[HP-Collection]

(01-23-2024 10:04 AM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  The batteries seem to be the same LR44 type as in the regular Pioneer series, but installed side by side horizontally.
Can you try to insert one battery to check if it fits?
I think the largest side of the battery (+ side) should be downwards.

If the proto could be turned on, it would be interesting !

J-F

As stated, the unit is not working. Even the contacts on the PCB are not copper but black.
The LR44 fitt in the battery holes, yes.

[brouhaha]

(01-19-2024 05:28 PM)HP-Collection Wrote:  Unfortunately, the device is not executable.

One reason for this is that the Saturn chip is not present. Part of the frame for the TAB (Tape Automated Bonding) is present, but the die, and possible a TAB frame. appear to have been removed. See this photo of the HP 42S board by Takayuki HOSODA for comparison:

http://www.finetune.co.jp/~lyuka/interes...p42s-9.jpg

The black square in the center of the frame is the die. The location for the die in your prototype is obviously empty, and it appears to be irregular in a way suggesting that a die may have originally been present, but later removed.

Your prototype appears to have used a somewhat different variation of assembling the TAB chip onto the main PCB. It's possible that it didn't use the plastic frame, but it definitely needed the die!

The NEC uPD4464G-15L is an 8K byte static RAM, equivalent to that in the HP 42S.

The key legends suggest that this was built VERY early in the development of the Pioneer platform. It was apparently a very basic scientific calculator, not closely matching any model that HP actually shipped, but it would have been quite acceptable as a demonstration of a working hardware platform.

[brouhaha]

(01-23-2024 05:01 PM)HP-Collection Wrote:  Even the contacts on the PCB are not copper but black.

The black seen in other places on the PCB is a carbon coating most commonly seen for inexpensive membrane keyboards. It is somewhat resistive so it shouldn't be used in a production calculator for battery contacts, but in principle it would work well enough for a prototype.

[linq2008]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/266595005145，ebay sold $196.50

[HP-Collection]

(01-24-2024 05:49 AM)linq2008 Wrote:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/266595005145，ebay sold $196.50

Yes, this is mine. You got it