HP-42S x HP-41 short label addressing

[Artur - Brasil]

Hi, guys!

I'm starting playing with my HP-42S (after 20+ years of its launch?!!)

Do you know if it has the short label (A-E, a--e, i, j) automatic assigment to top keys (A--E, I,J and a--e) - as HP-41 has - beyond using Custom menu, with FLAG 72 (that can't be set or cleared by program, correct?) set, which will show on display 2nd line A B C D E XEQ and will branch to respective local labels?

This approach is very primitive, as does not allow me to determine the "soft menu" messages, as it shows A B C D E XEQ always.

Second, if I have to control label 72 by calculator's MODE menu, programmability/flexibility is affected (trying to put SF 72 in programm line will show Restricted Operation).

MENU also is not complete, as it does not allows use of SHIFT labels, correct me if I'm wrong, please!

Any ideas?

[rprosperi]

It's actually 35 years, but who's counting???

You can use Local Labels A-E and a-e, but these do not map to the top-row keys.

You can set and clear Flag 72, but this is done via dedicated mode commands;

XEQ "LCLBL" is used in lieu of SF 72, and
[shift][MODES][V][KEY] is used in lieu of CF 72. (<== edited, thx Werner!)

hth

[Artur - Brasil]

(02-28-2024 01:25 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  It's actually 35 years, but who's counting???

Ooopss, time flows fast!

(02-28-2024 01:25 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  You can use Local Labels A-E and a-e, but these do not map to the top-row keys.

I didn't understand this. The "soft menu" A B C D E XEQ links to Sigma+ 1/x root log ln and XEQ keys, on first row of keys. The big difference from 41 is that we have the up and down arrows, that bring the F G H I J XEQ soft menu but still linked to the same top first row of keys, isn't it?
A pain HP didn't allow to show more convenient/programmable information on labels. A B C... F G H... do not say anything and is a waste of effort as I understand!!! A pit!

(02-28-2024 01:25 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  You can set and clear Flag 72, but this is done via dedicated mode commands; XEQ "LCLBL" is used in lieu of SF 72, and XEQ "KEY" is used in lieu of CF 72.
Great, thanks for class!!!

hth

[Werner]

(02-28-2024 01:25 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  ..XEQ "KEY" is used in lieu of CF 72.

That would be XEQ "KEYASN", Bob!

Cheers, Werner

[Didier Lachieze]

(02-28-2024 01:50 PM)Artur - Brasil Wrote:  A pain HP didn't allow to show more convenient/programmable information on labels. A B C... F G H... do not say anything and is a waste of effort as I understand!!! A pit!

These local labels on the 42S are there for compatibility with HP-41 programs but the 42S offers a more friendly way to interact with programs thanks to the programmable menu. See p.145 in the HP-42S Owner’s Manual.

[rprosperi]

(02-28-2024 02:26 PM)Werner Wrote:  

(02-28-2024 01:25 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  ..XEQ "KEY" is used in lieu of CF 72.

That would be XEQ "KEYASN", Bob!

Cheers, Werner

Thanks Werner, that works though I didn't recall that at all. What I should have posted is [shift][MODES][V][KEY], which is the way I did this, and even checked the menu for spelling of "KEY", but that is a unique flag toggle control. Corrected above as well.

[Artur - Brasil]

(02-28-2024 04:54 PM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:  These local labels on the 42S are there for compatibility with HP-41 programs but the 42S offers a more friendly way to interact with programs thanks to the programmable menu. See p.145 in the HP-42S Owner’s Manual.

Yes, the MENU command is a great add to HP42S, but does not replace the local labels with my labels, nota A, B, ..., mainly I think, because Shift lack. As HP41 solution for menus was using local labels, engineers should have done more attention to this function. Just my thougts 35 years late!!!

[Joe Horn]

(02-28-2024 08:32 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Thanks Werner, that works though I didn't recall that at all. What I should have posted is [shift][MODES][V][KEY], which is the way I did this, and even checked the menu for spelling of "KEY", but that is a unique flag toggle control. Corrected above as well.

If you press and hold down that key, you'll see that it executes the KEYASN command. Its key label, like many HP-42S key labels, differs from the full name of the associated command. A good example of this is the label immediately to the left of KEYASN. It says "RRES" in the label, but it executes the REALRES command. ALso, the key label to the left of *that* one says "CRES" but it executes CPXRES. And so on.

Disclaimer: If you already knew this, ignore this posting.

[Peet]

(02-29-2024 12:23 AM)Artur - Brasil Wrote:  As HP41 solution for menus was using local labels, engineers should have done more attention to this function. Just my thougts 35 years late!!!

I don't fully understand your criticism of the implementation.

In many cases I don't like the user interface on the HP42s compared to the HP41, but in my opinion a lot has been done right in this point in particular.

If you put the 42s in LCLBL mode (via mode menu), the local LBL A-E and a-e work exact like on the 41, but unfortunately HP messed it up with the LBL F-J. But most 41s programs work like this without any modification.

Funnily enough, this compatibility is almost unnecessary with the HP42s because it can't import 41 programs; they have to be re-entered anyway and you can simply use the luxury solution "MENU".

With the free/plus/DM42, thanks to LCLBL, it is possible to load most 41 RAWs directly onto the x42. Unfortunately, the half-hearted implementation of LBL F-J and the annoying switching via the mode menu are a hindrance to the fun.

However, the solution via MENU is an improvement/modernization in every respect compared to using the local input labels.

In the past (41), for example, in a card game I had solved the keys for drawing a card or stand like this:

LBL A
@ hit card
...
LBL B
@ standing
...

On the 42 I simply put the following lines at the beginning of the code:

CLMENU
"HIT"
KEY 1 GTO A
"STAND"
KEY 2 GTO B
MENU

and have labeled keys

[rprosperi]

(02-29-2024 06:57 AM)Joe Horn Wrote:  

(02-28-2024 08:32 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Thanks Werner, that works though I didn't recall that at all. What I should have posted is [shift][MODES][V][KEY], which is the way I did this, and even checked the menu for spelling of "KEY", but that is a unique flag toggle control. Corrected above as well.

If you press and hold down that key, you'll see that it executes the KEYASN command. Its key label, like many HP-42S key labels, differs from the full name of the associated command. A good example of this is the label immediately to the left of KEYASN. It says "RRES" in the label, but it executes the REALRES command. ALso, the key label to the left of *that* one says "CRES" but it executes CPXRES. And so on.

Disclaimer: If you already knew this, ignore this posting.

Thanks Joe. I know the feature of course, but never noticed this; I just see the state change (the dot added/removed on the button label). I checked the manual as to why I would have been doing it via MODE (as opposed to the command) and interestingly, it explains it both ways in different parts of the manual, so I guess I know which part I read last. Thx!

[Artur - Brasil]

Let the local label as it is.

But I could find one interesting thread about program input to HP-42S, with a very crazy interface!

https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap...read=10974

It was from 2001 ! But the main subject of the post was lost with so many contributions and all the idea has no end, at least in that thread.
Electronics is easy, but would have a big effort for mapping all commands to keystroke or use the XEQ ALPHA command ENTER [parameters] for each one applicable.