Comparing Android apps for the hp15c

[Johnh]

What a great couple of weeks its been for the world of RPN calculation! Just about every current model has had an upgrade with firmware, or apps, or both, across both HP and Swissmicros.

I’m interested in HP15c and its family, and I was happy to see the HP15c-CE updates and the official HP15c Android app available again as announced yesterday. So I decided to get the re-released App and compare to others for the ’15.

I think that having an App on a phone, that corresponds to a real calculator, enhances the use of each. The App can act as a test bed for the calculator, and works better in low light and for when you don't want to get the real calculator out. Having the two based on the same design allows familiarity to develop. Hp15c-CE is the one I reach for now, so I wanted to make sure I have the best available App to go with it.

For Android, I think there are currently three available Apps that aim to match the look and user experience of a real HP15c, being the official HP one from Moravia, TouchRPN from Stendec and JRPN15 from Jovial.

All can be massively faster than the original ’15, so that's not really a point of comparison. In terms of cost, the HP app is the most expensive, TouchRPN is less than half, (or free if ad supported), JRPN is free. But really, for the thousands of hours that went into the original design and the coding of these apps, and for what you get, I think $ are minimal.

I set each one up on my S22, with settings chosen to optimise each one. This phone is only about 85% of the width of a real Voyager, although it is quite long. So to get the fullest view, it’s the width that constrains it.

Appearance

See screenshots below.

HP15c from Moravia

Out of the three, this one looks to me to be most like the real thing with its Hewlett-Packard and HP15c logos, details of keys and bezel with shading and shadowing and a metallic look to the bezel and deep tones for the keyboard body with realistic colours.

The full calculator with bezel and logos is fitted to the available screen, which also shows the general phone info such as battery, connections, time etc. So the calculator working area is compressed to suit, at least on my S22.

Touch RPN

This also has a 3D look, but it’s a bit more simplified, slightly less realistic than the HP, not quite as deep a background tone, and a bit lighter LCD. This may actually make it a bit clearer in use. Most usefully, settings can suppress the background phone info and also trim the bezel to get the maximum full screen expansion of the working area. Hence it looks significantly bigger for keys and digits, approaching full size.

JRPN15

This one also shrinks the calculator with the full bezel, similarly to the HP, but digits are a bit smaller again. Graphics are clear and 3D, fairly similar to TouchRPN and less real than HP. It has a nice feature though, whereby you can adjust RBG colour-codes for the key and label tones. So I boosted the f and f-reference colours to make them less red and brighter and more golden, similar to my HP15c-CE.

Feel and feedback

All offer sound and haptic feedback, and TouchRPN can also set a slight glow on key pressing. I found the haptic feedback on TouchRPN to be the best, with a clear solid thump, the best representation of a HP key I've felt in an app. The Moravia app is fine for haptic, but is more subtle. I cant get the JRPN feedback to work, probably a phone setting needs adjusting.

Portrait mode

All offer portrait modes and these are very useful on a phone app. For TouchRPN and JRPN it’s a fully-featured transposition of all the keys (slightly different to each other). However, in portrait mode the HP app goes to a stripped down 4-function RPN calc. I could see that has its use for quick numbers. I wish it just brought over a bit more of the full set though, particularly the ability to enter powers of 10 without having to go back to landscape.

Key codes and output.

JRPN15 can copy the program listing to the clipboard, with line numbers, key codes and key names, which is very useful. TouchRPN also works with the text file, if you find it, but doesn’t do key names to date. I didn’t any see such features offered in the HP app. Also TouchRPN and JRPN can save states within the phone, which I didn’t see on the HP App.

One more difference is that TouchRPN creates key-codes which include the label letters A to E, where called up as labels. That could actually be a good feature in principle, but of course it's not as per the original.

Wish list…

I think the ideal would be:

1. Trim and stretch the display like TouchRPN, suppressing phone information to maximise the working area
2. Program code text output as JRPN
3. Save states as JRPN and TouchRPN, very useful for testing
4. Graphics like the official HP app, maybe with a tad lighter LCD
5. Stretch wish…. Connectivity compatibility with HP15c_CE windows app and firmware for program transfer from the real calculator to the pc to the App.

Sorry if I missed or misrepresented anything, and thanks for reading!

John

[mfleming]

Nice comparison & review!

Another 15C to consider is the pockemu app version. It has the rather nice feature of displaying the T/Z/Y/Last registers in a stack between the display and logo badge. Pressing a key causes an expanded key image to shift up above your fingertip for visual confirmation of the key pressed, along with haptic feedback. It can also import/export calculator state so you can create and use program collections.

~Mark
NB: I'll attach an image if I can figure out how to do a screenshot

[Johnh]

hi @mfleming, thanks for pointing out pockemul, which has a range of different calc emulations.

I installed it and enjoyed the hp35 and hp41 versions. Both very clearly rendered or photographed and nice to try

The Voyager models are there too, but seemed like they were only available for a monthly subscription, which was unappealing to me.

But there are also some pocket computer models there which would be a nice reminder of how I used to work in the late 80's and early 90's, before we all had pc's on our desks

[mfleming]

(07-27-2024 07:42 PM)Johnh Wrote:  The Voyager models are there too, but seemed like they were only available for a monthly subscription, which was unappealing to me.

I can understand the reluctance to take on a monthly subscription, for I felt the same myself. The cost is rather modest, and it does support the development effort of a fellow enthusiast. However, consider you have access to the number of models currently supported, and also think of the ones under development (including the 71B!) After giving everything a try, you can always buy the individual calculator models you're most interested in and cancel the subscription.

My thought anyway,
~Mark

[Johnh]

Hi Mark yes pockemul does look cool and generally I'm happy to support such work. I even saw my old black folding Casio in there. When i logged in I didn't see the individual-buy options though, so I backed out for now. If you've tried a Voyager calc there, is it a good rendition?

[mfleming]

Here are screen shots of the 15C and 16C. I had to use a Samsung tablet instead of my phone (The curse of Android: Every manufacturer wants to do the same thing differently). On a tablet you can pinch to zoom to any size.

The 48GX and the IR printer extension are both free to try. Photo also attached.

The Sharp and Casio models are well represented. One of these days I'll try loading forth on the E500 or G850...

~Mark

[Johnh]

Thanks Mark! Those do look to be nicely done. I love the extra stack listing, cleverly floating over the brightest part of the bezel!

The whole system looks to be very thoughtful and extensive, and a real project of passion. I'll definitely be trying this some more.

[Johnh]

So I ponied-up and found where to buy a license for the hp15c model on pockemul. I bought a permanent license, just for that one model since that's all I need (but i appreciate the free hp41 and hp35 sims, and a few others). It was good value and about the same price as TouchRPN, ($10.99AUD which is about $7 USD).

Definitely worth it.

Appearance - photo realistic, actually I think its from a photo. Only issue is the orange 'f' text above keys is a bit muted (as some are), and also slightly blurred, like a jpeg, and this combined with it being quite fine text anyway, diminishes its clarity compared to the other sims. Actually Mark's screen shot of a 16c shows that its a bit clearer there. You can zoom in a bit if wanted. Might be better to replace the photo text with pixel-sharp graphic text.

It comes set to original speed, and can offer up to 5x acceleration, or full speed. At full speed, the time-out before it shuts down to sleep is only a few seconds, so best to stay at slow speed and enjoy the gentle journey and long integrations.

Various different save and share options are included, plus copy program to text etc (line numbers and key names, rather than numerical codes)

Feedback is fine

A great little 4-line stack summary can be put on the metal bezel.

The whole pockemul system seems to have many layers of features and is a very impressive package from the authors. The other sims are maybe a bit simpler to get into, but this one is a terrific piece of work!

[Radim Frydrych]

Hi, as discussed in the original thread, I am listing all the changes we are currently considering - this does not necessarily mean we will implement all of them. I am not so familiar with the Prime app, but I saw a review from Eric R. Who would be the right one to discuss the Prime apps?

Design changes
1. Delete "HEWLETT-PACKARD" (EOL design)
2. Picture of the calculator instead of drawing
3. Design of the digits closer to the real calcs


Feature changes
1. Same functions in vertical and horizontal position + same setting options
2. import/export function
3. copy/paste function
4. Option to customize the calcs - colors of the keys, etc.
5. Full screen option

Here are new features suggested by you with my comments:
1. Trim and stretch the display like TouchRPN, suppressing phone information to maximise the working area - Do you mean full screen option? I have a free version where 50% of display is occupied by ad
2. Program code text output as JRPN Anything specific or simple export function?
3. Save states as JRPN and TouchRPN, very useful for testing Can you please explain me this function? It looks to me like copy/paste of the last value (program?) inside the app
4. Graphics like the official HP app, maybe with a tad lighter LCD What we released is the official app.
5. Stretch wish…. Connectivity compatibility with HP15c_CE windows app and firmware for program transfer from the real calculator to the pc to the App. This is something we are checking. It would be very nice feature as the cable is available.

[Johnh]

Hi Radim, thanks for replying and your list of potential updates look like they will cover most of what I was looking for.

Just to clarify my list as you noted:

1. Trim and stretch.... Most phones are not as wide as the real calc. Touch RPN can not only suppress the phone into (battery, wifi etc) but can also trim the calculator image to delete the top and bottom bezels. So it removes everything above the LCD, and everything below the lower edge of the lowest buttons. Then the main area can grow a bit more so that the LCD size and button spacing is nearer to real.

2. Program code text output. This should ideally be line number, then the numerical key code that you see and then the name of the key eg 100 15 1/x for a line to do a reciprocal. Text copied to the Clipboard seems easy to deal with, then it can be pasted into any other app to save in other forms., and format it any way.

3. Save states.... just to save a file with the full state of the calculator, given a name. That way we can save a working set of inputs and programs and go back to it if further editting corrupts the program by accident. Or, we could save a state which is full of several programs for a particular purpose, eg electronics, and then swap to another which we have set up with finance calcs.

4 Graphics... yes I really like the current graphics which seems almost photo-realistic and if you offer some colour editing it will be perfect. My suggestion was a bit more LCD brightness in the grey background. I also like to boost the f colour to make it a brighter orange-yellow, as you did on the real hp15-CE.

If changing to an actual photo, need to be very careful with shadows and flare, and make the fine text is sharp.

5. Connectivity to the real calc, via pc. That would be great! I guess it'd need to write and read a file in the same format as the new Voyagersave, and decide how best to send it. I think it would be fine if it was always going through the pc, to avoid needing to solve a direct phone to calc interface.

thanks for considering!
John

[Radim Frydrych]

(07-31-2024 09:15 AM)Johnh Wrote:  Hi Radim, thanks for replying and your list of potential updates look like they will cover most of what I was looking for.

Just to clarify my list as you noted:

1. Trim and stretch.... Most phones are not as wide as the real calc. Touch RPN can not only suppress the phone into (battery, wifi etc) but can also trim the calculator image to delete the top and bottom bezels. So it removes everything above the LCD, and everything below the lower edge of the lowest buttons. Then the main area can grow a bit more so that the LCD size and button spacing is nearer to real.

2. Program code text output. This should ideally be line number, then the numerical key code that you see and then the name of the key eg 100 15 1/x for a line to do a reciprocal. Text copied to the Clipboard seems easy to deal with, then it can be pasted into any other app to save in other forms., and format it any way.

3. Save states.... just to save a file with the full state of the calculator, given a name. That way we can save a working set of inputs and programs and go back to it if further editting corrupts the program by accident. Or, we could save a state which is full of several programs for a particular purpose, eg electronics, and then swap to another which we have set up with finance calcs.

4 Graphics... yes I really like the current graphics which seems almost photo-realistic and if you offer some colour editing it will be perfect. My suggestion was a bit more LCD brightness in the grey background. I also like to boost the f colour to make it a brighter orange-yellow, as you did on the real hp15-CE.

If changing to an actual photo, need to be very careful with shadows and flare, and make the fine text is sharp.

5. Connectivity to the real calc, via pc. That would be great! I guess it'd need to write and read a file in the same format as the new Voyagersave, and decide how best to send it. I think it would be fine if it was always going through the pc, to avoid needing to solve a direct phone to calc interface.

thanks for considering!
John

Thank you, John. Do you know anyone who could give some input on the Prime app?

[Johnh]

Thanks Radim
I don't know any Prime users myself and it's a more complex machine than I can use for my own work, although I do have the lite version installed. But maybe a message in the 'HP Prime' section of this forum would find someone?