HP-12C "Gold"

[AnnoyedOne]

While looking for other HP-12C stuff I came across the HP-12C "Gold". As far as I can tell it has the same black/gold colouring of the original HP-12C. I don't see any special label or anything else.

Some HP-12C's have a silver bezel. Is a "gold" one with newer hardware the only difference?

PS: My 2022 HP-12C+ has a gold HP logo at the top right of the calculator and the bezel is goldish.

A1

[rprosperi]

There is no "HP-12C Gold", it's simply what some people call them (especially ion eBay); they're all gold. Tho color of the bezel has certainly varied slightly over the years and it seems some are 'darker gold' than others, but they're all Gold-ish. In some lighting conditions and angles, the bezels can appear more silver than gold, but that's just age/lighting/camera/angles/dirt, etc. playing games.

The 11C and 12C were the initial Voyagers formally introduced in Sep '81, with a Silver 11C and Gold 12C, to easily/visually distinguish between Scientific and Financial models, so even the very early 12Cs, which tend to be the most worn/exposed, etc. were definitely gold.

Also, keep in mind that 12Cs have been in continuous production since 1980, in 6 or 7 countries (I still am not convinced they were ever made in Indonesia, but I look daily) and even in multiple factories within those countries, and many have been literally in daily use for much of that time, so it's not really a surprise that they can look drastically different.

[AnnoyedOne]

(08-16-2024 10:52 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  There is no "HP-12C Gold", it's simply what some people call them...

So just as I suspected a cosmetic only difference. Unlike the HP-12C Platinum or HP-12C+* which are actually different.

I looked on eBay and there were many listings for "gold" HP-12C's although many actually looked silver. Like with anything else eBay listing photo's can be misleading.

Thanks.

A1

* The 2009 HP HP-12C SDK actually states "HP-12C+" in a few places. It is thus not just a made-up name.

[rprosperi]

(08-17-2024 12:52 PM)AnnoyedOne Wrote:  * The 2009 HP HP-12C SDK actually states "HP-12C+" in a few places. It is thus not just a made-up name.

"HP-12C+", just like "HP-15C+", were internal HP names for the redesigned (e.g. with new CPU, 2 x 2032, etc.) models around 2010/2011. The "new" 12C was simply marketed as an HP-12C, keeping the exact same branding, etc. that they have always used (and always will) while the 15C+ was marketed as the limited edition HP-15C LE.

[AnnoyedOne]

(08-17-2024 10:58 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  "HP-12C+", just like "HP-15C+", were internal HP names..

Yeah.

The April 2008, edition 5 HP-12C user's guide I have shows (in the PDF properties) the "Title" as

Microsoft Word - HP 12c+_user's guide_English_E_HDP0F12AE03_062608.doc

yet the text only ever says "12C".

By contrast the September 2011, edition 2.4 HP-15C (LE) owner's handbook PDF has a blank title. No reference to HP-15C+ at all. Neither does the LE advanced function handbook PDF. I don't own a HP-15C LE or have anything else (e.g. the CD) and therefore have no evidence to prove that "HP-15C+" was used. Maybe it was however.

A1

[rprosperi]

(08-18-2024 12:34 PM)AnnoyedOne Wrote:  I don't own a HP-15C LE or have anything else (e.g. the CD) and therefore have no evidence to prove that "HP-15C+" was used. Maybe it was however.

At HHC 2011, HP gifted an HP-15C+ with that name printed on the bezel, to all attendees, so there's no need to look for evidence, it's been out there for just under 13 years.

[HP67]

(08-16-2024 10:52 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  The 11C and 12C were the initial Voyagers formally introduced in Sep '81, with a Silver 11C and Gold 12C, to easily/visually distinguish between Scientific and Financial models, so even the very early 12Cs, which tend to be the most worn/exposed, etc. were definitely gold.

Also, keep in mind that 12Cs have been in continuous production since 1980, in 6 or 7 countries (I still am not convinced they were ever made in Indonesia, but I look daily) and even in multiple factories within those countries, and many have been literally in daily use for much of that time, so it's not really a surprise that they can look drastically different.

If I recall, my 12C which I bought in the early 1980s was made in Indonesia. It's a few thousand km from where I am now, but I should be able to check in a few months if nobody else can post a shot of his.

I could be totally wrong, but when I read your post it did ring a bell.

[rprosperi]

(08-19-2024 08:49 AM)HP67 Wrote:  If I recall, my 12C which I bought in the early 1980s was made in Indonesia. It's a few thousand km from where I am now, but I should be able to check in a few months if nobody else can post a shot of his.

I could be totally wrong, but when I read your post it did ring a bell.

I'd appreciate it if you would check when you can, but it seems unlikely as I believe mfg. of 12C's did not shift to Pacific Rim countries until the late 80's at the earliest. But I'd love to be wrong about this, as since I've never seen one from Indonesia, I can't say when they may have been made. Other models made there, like the 48GX and late Pioneer models were from the late 90's and early 2000's so I've assumed 12C's would be from roughly the same period.

[AnnoyedOne]

The countries I've seen mentioned for the 12C family.

Brazil
Canada
China
Malaysia
Philippines
USA

I've seen others (on other sites) mention Indonesia as well but nothing confirmed. Malaysia is in the same general area as Indonesia so maybe.

[HP67]

AnnoyedOne is making me wonder now. Ok, so I have a fall project

I'll update as soon as I can.

[AnnoyedOne]

(08-19-2024 03:15 PM)HP67 Wrote:  AnnoyedOne is making me wonder now.

I believe that 'M' in the serial number indicates both Malaysia and Indonesia. Therefore look for "Made in Indonesia" on the back.

https://www.hpmuseum.org/collect.htm#numbers

[rprosperi]

(08-19-2024 03:21 PM)AnnoyedOne Wrote:  I believe that 'M' in the serial number indicates both Malaysia and Indonesia. Therefore look for "Made in Indonesia" on the back.

https://www.hpmuseum.org/collect.htm#numbers

Wow, your note that "M" could be either Malaysia OR Indonesia is a wakeup call! I'll ask Dave for his source for that claim. I own several with an "M" and I'l check later today if some do and some don't say "Made in...". THANKS for that pointer, missed for years.

Also, 12C's were never made in Canada; AFAIK, no HP calcs were ever made in Canada. The 6th country your list is missing is Singapore.

[AnnoyedOne]

(08-19-2024 05:03 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Also, 12C's were never made in Canada; AFAIK...

https://www.thimet.de/CalcCollection/Cal...ntents.htm

Is "CN" China?

[Steve Simpkin]

(08-19-2024 05:08 PM)AnnoyedOne Wrote:  

(08-19-2024 05:03 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Also, 12C's were never made in Canada; AFAIK...

https://www.thimet.de/CalcCollection/Cal...ntents.htm

Is "CN" China?

Yes, as is CNA.
https://digilander.libero.it/tonibinhome...ocId218832

[HP67]

Hi Bob et. al.,

Sorry for the false alarm. My 3 battery 12C which I bought in the early 1980s was indeed made in Malaysia, not Indonesia.

[rprosperi]

(10-02-2024 08:05 AM)HP67 Wrote:  Hi Bob et. al.,

Sorry for the false alarm. My 3 battery 12C which I bought in the early 1980s was indeed made in Malaysia, not Indonesia.

Thanks for confirming this. So, the search continues...

...but it's increasingly becoming clear that 12C's were never made in Indonesia, as the few people claiming so either no longer have them and can't validate it or simply recalled incorrectly. If they were made there some units would be floating around and some reader here would have found one by now.

[Luca Passaggio]

(08-19-2024 12:43 PM)AnnoyedOne Wrote:  The countries I've seen mentioned for the 12C family.

Brazil
Canada
China
Malaysia
Philippines
USA

I've seen others (on other sites) mention Indonesia as well but nothing confirmed. Malaysia is in the same general area as Indonesia so maybe.

Hello everybody, my HP-12C seems to be made in Singapore. Used every day since many years. Serial number 3347304420

[Keith Midson]

(08-19-2024 12:43 PM)AnnoyedOne Wrote:  The countries I've seen mentioned for the 12C family.

Brazil
Canada
China
Malaysia
Philippines
USA

I've seen others (on other sites) mention Indonesia as well but nothing confirmed. Malaysia is in the same general area as Indonesia so maybe.

I don't believe any 12C's were made in Canada. I've not seen any that were made in Indonesia, but some 32Sii and 17Bii were made in Indonesia in the 1990's so it's possible - be great if someone could confirm.

A comparison photo I took years ago:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/keithmidso...7586986282

[rprosperi]

(10-05-2024 09:26 PM)Keith Midson Wrote:  I don't believe any 12C's were made in Canada. I've not seen any that were made in Indonesia, but some 32Sii and 17Bii were made in Indonesia in the 1990's so it's possible - be great if someone could confirm.

A comparison photo I took years ago:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/keithmidso...7586986282

Raymond Del Tondo, generally as reliable as one can be, insists he used to own a 12C made n Indonesia, but then sold it, but he's fully certain it was made in Indonesia. I've looked daily (not missing any single day) since then on eBay at every 12C listed (and sent a question to the owner if not visible in the listing photos) for more than 3 years (considering ~10 12Cs are listed each day, that's > 12K units!) and never found any units from Indonesia, and also have > 10 friends looking for one and no evidence has ever been reported.

If any 12Cs were actually made in Indonesia, and I'm leaning heavily towards NO at this point, then it was only for an extremely short period of time.

OTOH, I've also searched for a long time for late-production HP-22S with the recessed bezel, and shortly after declaring that as being a pointless search, Jean-Francois found one in a local online auction, proving Unicorn turds really can be found if one looks lone and hard enough.

So, the reluctant search continues.

As for the photo (thanks Keith!), possibly it's the lighting, but the 2 x China and 1 x Malaysia units certainly seem to have grey colored keys, vs. the much darker brown/black of the other units. I have dozens of 12C units at home which I'll examine to see if this grey vs. black key color is consistent from the various source countries. The much darker 'gold' color of the bezel on the bottom unit is also notable, but I've seen the bezel color for 12Cs vary greatly, and not sure if it's a manufacturing issue, possibly exposure to the sun or some atmospheric chemical condition, or handling, etc. Finally, the 2008 China unit seems to also share the same elongated "%" symbol as the recently reported 'rogue' units.

[Keith Midson]

(10-05-2024 10:18 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  

(10-05-2024 09:26 PM)Keith Midson Wrote:  I don't believe any 12C's were made in Canada. I've not seen any that were made in Indonesia, but some 32Sii and 17Bii were made in Indonesia in the 1990's so it's possible - be great if someone could confirm.

A comparison photo I took years ago:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/keithmidso...7586986282

Raymond Del Tondo, generally as reliable as one can be, insists he used to own a 12C made n Indonesia, but then sold it, but he's fully certain it was made in Indonesia. I've looked daily (not missing any single day) since then on eBay at every 12C listed (and sent a question to the owner if not visible in the listing photos) for more than 3 years (considering ~10 12Cs are listed each day, that's > 12K units!) and never found any units from Indonesia, and also have > 10 friends looking for one and no evidence has ever been reported.

If any 12Cs were actually made in Indonesia, and I'm leaning heavily towards NO at this point.
...

As for the photo (thanks Keith!), possibly it's the lighting, but the 2 x China and 1 x Malaysia units certainly seem to have grey colored keys, vs. the much darker brown/black of the other units. I have dozens of 12C units at home which I'll examine to see if this grey vs. black key color is consistent from the various source countries. The much darker 'gold' color of the bezel on the bottom unit is also notable, but I've seen the bezel color for 12Cs vary greatly, and not sure if it's a manufacturing issue, possibly exposure to the sun or some atmospheric chemical condition, or handling, etc. Finally, the 2008 China unit seems to also share the same elongated "%" symbol as the recently reported 'rogue' units.

Well done on the Indonesia search - you've just saved me some time!! Actually i've had a recently renewed interest in the 12C after reading this thread and acquiring some new ones for my collection. Some variants shown in the album here (which hasn't been updated in years sorry):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/keithmidso...586986282/

In terms of any HP manufactured in Indonesia, I was always of the opinion that the build quality wasn't as good as other locations. The only example I have is this one (32Sii comparisons):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/keithmidso...6354812528

Yes I can confirm that the China units were a dark grey, which shows up more in the lighting of the photograph. The Chinese manufactured 12C's in that photo were reasonably new at the time. I haven't purchased a 'new' 12C for a long time, but I think they are almost exclusively made in China now?