HP 41C Manual vs HP 41CX

[Jase]

I wanted to secure a 41 manual. If my research is correct, only the 41C had the spiral bound manual. (Why any calculator manual would not be spiral bound, is beyond me).

My question - if I try and get my hands on a 41C spiral manual - will it potentially mess me up as I try and apply it to a 41CX?

Thanks for any insight.
Jase.

[born2laser]

You will have to complement it with the manuals for the time module and the extended functions module, that should serve well for the most part, except for minor differences, like for example the behavior of the CAT function.
That is what I've done myself going from my >40 years old 41CV with modules to my CL (that has the CX ROM)

Juan

[Jase]

(10-25-2024 03:12 PM)born2laser Wrote:  You will have to complement it with the manuals for the time module and the extended functions module, that should serve well for the most part, except for minor differences, like for example the behavior of the CAT function.
That is what I've done myself going from my >40 years old 41CV with modules to my CL (that has the CX ROM)

Juan

Thanks.
My other thought was to just suck it up and either use bound-manuals, or just use my iPad (which is guaranteed to lay flat).

Appreciate the feedback.
Jase.

[rprosperi]

The CX has 19 functions (I just counted!) which are not in 41CV+TIME+Ext-Func, so you could check those out using the CX PDF version initially, and possibly add Post-it notes to your CV manual for the functions that are of interest for your use. Some are trivial, some are extensive (e.g. the Text Editor, but this is only rarely used and then only my masochists), but some are also useful (EMROOM, SigmaREG?) but only your usage could decide.

[Jase]

(10-25-2024 07:08 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  The CX has 19 functions (I just counted!) which are not in 41CV+TIME+Ext-Func, so you could check those out using the CX PDF version initially, and possibly add Post-it notes to your CV manual for the functions that are of interest for your use. Some are trivial, some are extensive (e.g. the Text Editor, but this is only rarely used and then only my masochists), but some are also useful (EMROOM, SigmaREG?) but only your usage could decide.

Thank you.

I wonder if there is a parallel universe, where all calculator manuals are correctly, spiral bound?
My 28S manual was golden.

I bought two 15CEs and trying to read the manual and follow along is infuriating. I tried all sorts of tactics, but in the end just resorted to my iPad and the pdf

[g8241CV]

>...only the 41C had the spiral bound manual.
FWIW, I'm fairly certain my 41-CV manual has spiral binding.

[Eric Rechlin]

For the manuals I have scanned:

41C Owner's Handbook and Programming Guide Rev B Aug 1979: wire bound
41C/41CV Owner's Handbook and Programming Guide Rev B Oct 1981: wire bound
41C/41CV Operating Manual Rev B May 1981: stapled
41CV Operation in Detail Rev B Apr 1986: perfect bound
41CV Owner's Manual May 1984: perfect bound
41CX Owner's Manual (2 volumes) Rev B Aug 1984: perfect bound

So none were spiral bound.

[Thomas Klemm]

(10-26-2024 05:52 AM)Eric Rechlin Wrote:  So none were spiral bound.

But then we also have this:
OWNER’S HANDBOOK AND PROGRAMMING GUIDE HP-41C

[Steve Simpkin]

I think there may be some confusion between the terms "Spiral binding" and "Wire binding". Spiral binding is usually made from plastic. HP typically used wire binding on their earlier manuals. There are also a number of variations on each type.

Here is an example of the type of wire binding HP used on their early HP-41C and HP41CV handbooks.




Edit: HP was still using wire binding up until at least the early 1990's. Here is an example of the HP-48SX handbooks.

[Nihotte(lma)]

(10-25-2024 08:18 PM)Jase Wrote:  I wonder if there is a parallel universe, where all calculator manuals are correctly, spiral bound?
My 28S manual was golden.

Hello,

The manuals for my HP calculators are divided between manuals linked by a spiral wire like the 48SX manual in the image of Steve Simpkin (idem for my HP15C), manuals linked in double wire like for Steve's 41CV (it's the same for the doc of my Advantage module) or in classic binding (for later docs like those of my 48G-GX or my 16C and 11C).
In fact, although spiral-bound manuals are more practical to consult or to lay flat on a table to form a single side, I always have the fear of tearing the part in contact with the wire and I take always take care to properly re-level all the pages which have the unfortunate tendency to create relief. And then documents in classic bindings are much more practical to store upright and side by side in a shelf, especially if there are quite a few of them!!
However, it seems to me that the sheets of spiral-bound manuals have a heavier weight than other classically bound publications (the best case is that of my HP15C with very thick sheets) in order to also make them more resistant!

Keep you healthy!

Laurent

[naddy]

(10-26-2024 06:52 AM)Steve Simpkin Wrote:  Edit: HP was still using wire binding up until at least the early 1990's. Here is an example of the HP-48SX handbooks.

Huh. This may have been different for different language editions, because I seem to recall that the German manual that came with my HP-48SX had normal paperback binding.

[Eric Rechlin]

(10-26-2024 06:52 AM)Steve Simpkin Wrote:  Edit: HP was still using wire binding up until at least the early 1990's. Here is an example of the HP-48SX handbooks.

That is a spiral binding, also known as coil binding, not a wire binding, even though it is made with a wire. Notice how the metal spiral is coiled up. Spiral bindings can be either metal or plastic. If I remember right, HP only used metal for their coil bindings, though most third-party spiral-bound books for HP calculators used plastic instead. Plastic spiral bindings are especially durable and easily removable and replaceable, whereas metal spiral bindings can be flattened and deformed if compressed too much but usually have easier-to-turn pages due to less friction.

The other one you pictured (and the one that was graphically represented by a drawing in Thomas's link) is indeed wire binding, which does not form a coil. It's basically the metal equivalent of comb binding (which uses plastic and is sometimes mistakenly referred to by the trade name "GBC"), in that it is held open by a machine, the pages are put in, and then it's forced to (or allowed to, in the case of comb binding) close shut. The advantages of a wire binding are it's more durable and smoother-opening than a comb binding; the disadvantages of it are that it uses more expensive equipment to open and close and that is easily deformed if you try to open or close it by hand.

The easiest way to tell the difference between a metal coil binding and a metal wire binding at a distance is to look if the wires are doubled through each hole or perfectly perpendicular to the spine of the book -- then it's wire. If the wires only go through holes individually and are at a slight angle to the spine of the book it's a spiral/coil binding. A coil/spiral binding looks like a spring when removed from a book. A wire binding looks like a mess (unless you are very careful).

[Eric Rechlin]

(10-26-2024 06:36 AM)Thomas Klemm Wrote:  

(10-26-2024 05:52 AM)Eric Rechlin Wrote:  So none were spiral bound.

But then we also have this:
OWNER’S HANDBOOK AND PROGRAMMING GUIDE HP-41C

That's wire bound, just like I said the 41C manual I scanned was. So the exact same thing as I said.

Contrast that to this from the same site, which is spiral bound: HP-15C Owner's Handbook. Greendyk was careful to draw the bindings to correspond to the actual manuals.

[naddy]

(10-26-2024 02:55 PM)Eric Rechlin Wrote:  Contrast that to this from the same site, which is spiral bound: HP-15C Owner's Handbook. Greendyk was careful to draw the bindings to correspond to the actual manuals.

Huh. My original HP-15C Owner's Handbook (January 1985, Rev. F, Printed in U.S.A.) has paperback binding.

[AnnoyedOne]

(10-26-2024 03:25 PM)naddy Wrote:  Huh. My original HP-15C Owner's Handbook (January 1985, Rev. F, Printed in U.S.A.) has paperback binding.

Mine (March 1982) is wire bound. Printed in the US.

I have a small collection of printed/paper manuals for stuff in case of electrical power outage. For the most part I refer to PDF copies.

A1

[Liamtoh Resu]

In the past I have taken some conventionally paperback bounded books to Staples to have them "spiral bounded".

The books need a bit of tender loving care, especially when storing them.

[Eric Rechlin]

(10-26-2024 03:33 PM)AnnoyedOne Wrote:  

(10-26-2024 03:25 PM)naddy Wrote:  Huh. My original HP-15C Owner's Handbook (January 1985, Rev. F, Printed in U.S.A.) has paperback binding.

Mine (March 1982) is wire bound. Printed in the US.

Are you sure it isn't spiral bound? Every Voyager manual I have seen has either been spiral bound (the earlier ones, with a metal coil) or perfect bound (the later ones).

[AnnoyedOne]

(10-26-2024 10:26 PM)Eric Rechlin Wrote:  Are you sure it isn't spiral bound?

A "metal coil" bent at both ends.

My August 1982 "Printed in the U.S.A" HP-15C Advanced Functions Handbook is the same. As is my September 1983 HP-16C Owner's Handbook. However some later HP manuals I have are "perfect bound". My never-opened HP-15C CE Owner's Handbook is. As I recall you were involved with that redo based on scans of the original. I have looked at the PDF though. And the new Advanced Functions Handbook one. Nice work BTW

A1

[naddy]

(10-27-2024 12:39 PM)AnnoyedOne Wrote:  However some later HP manuals I have are "perfect bound". My never-opened HP-15C CE Owner's Handbook is. As I recall you were involved with that redo based on scans of the original. I have looked at the PDF though. And the new Advanced Functions Handbook one. Nice work BTW

I would like to add my voice to the chorus of praise!

Which is why it pains me to ask: Is there an official list of errata somewhere?