i^x = 2

[RPNerd]

(11-10-2024 07:06 PM)AnnoyedOne Wrote:  Ten fingers = base 10 = "natural". Cats can be Polydactyl but humans have 10 fingers and toes.

Humans can be polydactyl, too, but it's much, much rarer than polydactyl cats.

[RPNerd]

(11-11-2024 12:44 AM)naddy Wrote:  All those American units are defined in terms of SI units, so metrologically speaking, Americans are metric, they just use very odd multiples of metric units.

Not only are they weird multiples but they don't use the same multiples as us here in the UK.

Over here, one "floz" - fluid ounce - is the volume of water that weighs one ounce, i.e. just over 28 g. The corresponding volume in metric units is therefore just over 28 ml. We then have an old saying to remember how much a pint is: "A pint of pure water weighs a pound and a quarter", and a pound is 16 oz, so a pint weighs 1.25 x 16 oz = 20 oz and is therefore 20 floz in volume, which gives us the 568 ml that we all know here in the UK. A quart is 2 pints and a gallon is 4 quarts, i.e. 8 pints. A gallon is therefore 0.568 litres x 8 = 4.544 litres.

Now ask an American how much a gallon is in metric.

[dm319]

(11-11-2024 12:44 AM)naddy Wrote:  But yes, it is presumably no coincidence that a circle is traditionally partitioned into 360 degrees. That number has a lot of even divisors (32SII):

True, but base 360 is quite hard to remember all the digits!

Imagine if 10 was easily shared between 2, 3, 4 and 6 people?!

D

[AnnoyedOne]

(11-10-2024 11:55 PM)dm319 Wrote:  I buy fuel in litres but my car reports efficiency in miles per gallon.

And just to add to the confusion there are UK and US "gallons" so MPG can vary. l/100km doesn't.

(11-10-2024 11:55 PM)dm319 Wrote:  I do wish the UK had just gone all-in on metric.

The link in my post above shows the UK as "stalled" in its metric conversion. Makes life "interesting". Of course any decent calculator (online or real) can convert for you. Even Casio/TI models. But HP (or clones) are preferred. Unless you're a troll.

I've never researched why humans chose 12 as a base for some things. Seems odd. As I recall someone did make a "decimal clock" but for whatever reason it never caught on.

A1

[AnnoyedOne]

(11-11-2024 12:44 AM)naddy Wrote:  ...they just use very odd multiples of metric units.

Yeah. Like 5280 feet per mile??? Of course the English define a cricket pitch as 22 yards long...

22 x 3 (feet) x 12 (inches) x 2.54 (cm) / 100 (m) = 20.1168 meters. Not very far if someone is bowling a hard ball to you at 160kph (100mph)

A1

[AnnoyedOne]

(11-11-2024 06:34 AM)RPNerd Wrote:  Now ask an American how much a gallon is in metric.

What's metric? Sounds French.

A1

[AnnoyedOne]

(11-11-2024 09:33 AM)dm319 Wrote:  Imagine if 10 was easily shared between 2, 3, 4 and 6 people?!

Good point! Put that way 12 makes more sense.

A1

[dm319]

Relevant clip:
https://youtu.be/BNJgy6j9gas?si=6_7aFWHxxRvidScI

[J-F Garnier]

(11-11-2024 03:10 PM)AnnoyedOne Wrote:  

(11-11-2024 09:33 AM)dm319 Wrote:  Imagine if 10 was easily shared between 2, 3, 4 and 6 people?!

Good point! Put that way 12 makes more sense.

Base 10 or 12 don't matter when it comes to divide a pie for 5 or 7 guests

J-F

[RPNerd]

(11-11-2024 01:24 PM)AnnoyedOne Wrote:  The link in my post above shows the UK as "stalled" in its metric conversion. Makes life "interesting". Of course any decent calculator (online or real) can convert for you. Even Casio/TI models. But HP (or clones) are preferred. Unless you're a troll.

Pay close attention to unit conversions on calculators. If they don't specifically say exactly which units they use, you have to assume they use US units rather than UK, especially TI and HP (to be expected, they are American brands).

The UK is... strange in its mixed level of adoption of the metric system. As someone else pointed out, fuel is sold by the litre but car fuel efficiency is measured in miles per gallon (a proper gallon, not the short-change version used in the US). Road signs are still pretty much 100% imperial with distances measured in miles or yards and speed limits in miles per hour. Draft beer is sold in pubs by the pint but wine and spirits by the millilitre. The weight of food in supermarkets is measured in grams (sometimes with the equivalent in ounces in small print). Meteorological data is mostly in metric with temperatures in °C, rainfall measured in mm, air pressure in hectopascals but wind speed in miles per hour.

On the whole I think we use metric more than imperial these days. It'll probably be a very long time before road signs are converted to metric because of the sheer cost of doing it and the confusion that would ensue if they weren't ALL replaced across the country at the same time. Then explaining to people that a 60 speed limit is 60 km/h not 60 mph. It would be utter chaos.

[bxparks]

(11-11-2024 04:34 PM)RPNerd Wrote:  It'll probably be a very long time before road signs are converted to metric because of the sheer cost of doing it and the confusion that would ensue if they weren't ALL replaced across the country at the same time. Then explaining to people that a 60 speed limit is 60 km/h not 60 mph. It would be utter chaos.

Canada did it, and it's a HUGE country. Is there something special about the UK?

(I'm amused how a thread about complex numbers turned into a discussion about metric road signs..)

[RPNerd]

(11-11-2024 05:31 PM)bxparks Wrote:  Canada did it, and it's a HUGE country. Is there something special about the UK?

Other than the cost I can think of 3 reasons.

1) While this doesn't apply so much to the younger generations, the public over here is very conservative when it comes to traditions. There's a prevailing "You can take our miles and yards over our dead bodies!" feeling.

2) Because of 1) there's a lack of political will to drive the change. The powers that be have other priorities.

3) There's a lot of "Why do it? What would be the benefit?"

(11-11-2024 05:31 PM)bxparks Wrote:  (I'm amused how a thread about complex numbers turned into a discussion about metric road signs..)

That's a good point. If a moderator wants to split the thread somewhere and move the latter half to another topic...

[Steve Simpkin]

(11-11-2024 05:31 PM)bxparks Wrote:  

(11-11-2024 04:34 PM)RPNerd Wrote:  It'll probably be a very long time before road signs are converted to metric because of the sheer cost of doing it and the confusion that would ensue if they weren't ALL replaced across the country at the same time. Then explaining to people that a 60 speed limit is 60 km/h not 60 mph. It would be utter chaos.

Canada did it, and it's a HUGE country. Is there something special about the UK?

(I'm amused how a thread about complex numbers turned into a discussion about metric road signs..)

[naddy]

(11-11-2024 06:34 AM)RPNerd Wrote:  

(11-11-2024 12:44 AM)naddy Wrote:  All those American units are defined in terms of SI units, so metrologically speaking, Americans are metric, they just use very odd multiples of metric units.

Not only are they weird multiples but they don't use the same multiples as us here in the UK.

There is a bottom-up difference between Imperial and US liquid units, and a smaller top-down one. Allow me to explain:

The principal difference is this: 1 gill (US) = 4 fl oz (US), but 1 gill (UK) = 5 fl oz (UK)
It's pronounced "Jill", by the way. There are four gills in a pint, so this percolates up the chain of units and UK pints/quarts/gallons are all about one fourth larger than their American counterparts.

The second difference is that at some point the US gallon has been redefined as exactly 231 cubic inches. This percolates down the chain of units all the way to the bottom, so a US fluid ounce now slightly differs from its UK counterpart.

Quote:Now ask an American how much a gallon is in metric.

231 × (0.0254 m)³. For the rest you have an HP calculator.

Of course I'm a natively metric Continental European who shouldn't know any of this.

[Matt Agajanian]

(11-11-2024 05:31 PM)bxparks Wrote:  (I'm amused how a thread about complex numbers turned into a discussion about metric road signs..)

That makes two of us.

[John Keith]

(11-11-2024 04:34 PM)RPNerd Wrote:  It'll probably be a very long time before road signs are converted to metric because of the sheer cost of doing it and the confusion that would ensue if they weren't ALL replaced across the country at the same time. Then explaining to people that a 60 speed limit is 60 km/h not 60 mph. It would be utter chaos.

In the 1970's when the US made baby steps toward the metric system, some road signs listed speed or distance in miles and kilometers. Road signs could be made in both metric and Imperial units for a period of, say, 5-10 years, then go to Km only. No need for sudden change and ensuing chaos, and since road signs need to be replaced periodically anyway, no great expense.

[dm319]

OK, I feel like we're approaching a consensus here?

Lets agree, for those countries who failed the switch to metric, lets set an (ISO) date (2030-01-01 ?) to:

1. switch to metric 100%
2. move to base 12
3. all (base 12) calculators now RPN
   

What can go wrong?

30 mph becomes 40 kph
50 mph becomes 68 kph
70 mph becomes 94 kph

simples!

[AnnoyedOne]

(11-11-2024 11:29 PM)dm319 Wrote:  What can go wrong?

Um... Want a list?

A1

[klesl]

Interesting book about metric system in the Great Britain: A very British mess
https://ukma.org.uk/publications/avbm-summary/
pdf book
https://ukma.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/vbm.pdf

It is interesting the americans uses metric system e.g. in pharmacy industry, science. Not sure if it is same in the Great Britain.
I still remember when NASA lost its Mars Climate Orbiter
https://www.nature.com/articles/43974

[KeithB]

"In the 1970's when the US made baby steps toward the metric system, some road signs listed speed or distance in miles and kilometers."

I think there is one left on highway 40 in California.