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Gerald H · 05-01-2015, 10:24 AM

(04-27-2015 04:34 PM)walter b Wrote: Maybe, however, it's simply a matter of culture and education (as another member wrote recently). Alas, we lack a "court of cassation" here which suspends all verdicts the sentencing judge is effectively unable to convey to the convict within 48 hours.

Pleased to see you are using an expanded vocabulary, viz "convict" rather than "customer".

jebem · 05-01-2015, 11:08 AM

(05-01-2015 10:24 AM)Gerald H Wrote:
(04-27-2015 04:34 PM)walter b Wrote: Maybe, however, it's simply a matter of culture and education (as another member wrote recently). Alas, we lack a "court of cassation" here which suspends all verdicts the sentencing judge is effectively unable to convey to the convict within 48 hours.

Pleased to see you are using an expanded vocabulary, viz "convict" rather than "customer".

By the way, it seems the MoHPC have a new status category, besides the usual Junior, Member, Senior, et al, for very specific members: On Vacation.
Just saw it now associated to Walter B account name.

Does it really mean he went for vacations? Smile

Marcio · (This post was last modified: 05-01-2015 11:38 AM by Marcio.)

(05-01-2015 11:08 AM)jebem Wrote: Does it really mean he went for vacations?

I would say No!

Massimo Gnerucci · 05-01-2015, 01:02 PM

(05-01-2015 11:08 AM)jebem Wrote: Does it really mean he went for vacations?

I'd say forced vacation.

Thomas Radtke · 05-01-2015, 01:13 PM

(05-01-2015 01:02 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote: I'd say forced vacation.

I'd say vacation for everyone else.

renif · 05-01-2015, 03:05 PM

And I'd say another piece of dissent leading to nowhere. Or as said a couple of posts above:
"Maybe, however, it's simply a matter of culture and education.."

In order to promote both, a quote from wikipedia:
"Essentially, it is the duty of the moderator to manage the day-to-day affairs of a forum or board as it applies to the stream of user contributions and interactions. The relative effectiveness of this user management directly impacts the quality of a forum in general, its appeal, and its usefulness as a community of interrelated users."

Now, does the additional element of user status give us really a useful information, or is it intended to show s.o. up?

Finally, for your calculator related pleasure a short quiz (or just a humble hint):

WALTER
+PEACE
______
ACCORD

Find the single solution to this cryptarithm. Progs for RPN calculators or other machines highly welcome Wink

**Dave Hicks** · 05-01-2015, 04:19 PM

(05-01-2015 03:05 PM)renif Wrote: Now, does the additional element of user status give us really a useful information, or is it intended to show s.o. up?

I'm not sure I understand the question, but the standard status line in myBB is "Banned" and the user name is crossed out, however that suggests a degree of permanence beyond what exists here so I changed it to "On Vacation" as I have seen at some other forums and removed the crossing out of the name. Useful is in the eye of the beholder, though I must say I was surprised by how soon the first "thank you"s arrived after the status changed.

His bio says: "I'll never comprehend forum kind justice." However I believe he is capable of participating in a forum without generating a stream of complaints just like millions of other people. If I didn't believe that, the current status wouldn't be temporary.

renif · 05-01-2015, 05:00 PM

Thank You, Dave!

A status description "On Vacation" obviously is a better solution than the one before. I wasn't aware of this difference. Nevertheless the question remains, wether a distinction between normal membership (i.e. not banned) and a temporarily banned one is really useful for the community in the first place. Pardon, for not having formulated that point precisely enough.

d b · 05-01-2015, 05:07 PM

renif:
I don't completely understand what you are saying either but I gather that you are yet again, in support of walter.
Fine.
You've had your say. That is now the end of the subject as far as you are concerned. You don't write manuals. You will not be allowed to drag 2400 members through mud and psychosis.

In case anyone is interested; the following are the four reports that I got in the last two days before walter's latest vacation. There may have been more then and there have been dozens of reports and PMs during the last year that I personally have read.

RE walter's post in: More about math, calculators, RPN and programming- A member wrote: "Oh good god I am sick and tired of Walter. My vote is to give him the boot forever!"

RE walter's post in: Warning Level- A member wrote: "It's just getting more and more tiresome. Will this not stop at some point?"

RE walter's post in: Very strange phenomena on a public forum- A member wrote: "here we go again."

RE walter's post in: More about math, calculators, RPN and programming- A member wrote: "Yet another. I'm sure the moderators know what I mean. If he weren't so active in the 34S and 43S projects, the idea of banning him would not be so worrisome. But he just won't give it a break. I'm afraid some visitors may quit coming to the site ."

Again: that is from one 48 hour period. You got a lot of stones renif, to be taking the "user management" to task over anything concerning that person.

Thomas Radtke · 05-01-2015, 05:21 PM

(05-01-2015 04:19 PM)Dave Hicks Wrote: [...] I was surprised by how soon the first "thank you"s arrived after the status changed.

Here's another one: Thank you.

**Dave Hicks** · 05-01-2015, 05:21 PM

(05-01-2015 05:00 PM)renif Wrote: Nevertheless the question remains, wether a distinction between normal membership (i.e. not banned) and a temporarily banned one is really useful for the community in the first place. Pardon, for not having formulated that point precisely enough.

Well for users, it tells you that the lack of posting and/or PMs is probably not be due to death/illness etc. (People "on vacation" may not be able to use other features like PMs whereas people who simply have their posts suspended can.) For moderators, for whom most banned users are really spammers who get banned almost immediately, I think it could be very confusing if they banned them and they still looked identical. In fact I warned the other mods about removing the cross out and changing the text because I thought even that could cause confusion.

**Dave Hicks** · 05-01-2015, 05:27 PM

By the way, it also occurred to me that making them identical would get me accused of trying to hide something. When you're a moderator/admin, there's never a shortage of things that people think you're getting wrong and I thought that could be one of them.

PANAMATIK · (This post was last modified: 05-01-2015 06:08 PM by PANAMATIK.)

(05-01-2015 05:07 PM)Den Belillo (Martinez Ca.) Wrote: In case anyone is interested; the following are the four reports that I got in the last two days before walter's latest vacation. There may have been more then and there have been dozens of reports and PMs during the last year that I personally have read.

RE walter's post in: More about math, calculators, RPN and programming- A member wrote: "Oh good god I am sick and tired of Walter. My vote is to give him the boot forever!"

RE walter's post in: Warning Level- A member wrote: "It's just getting more and more tiresome. Will this not stop at some point?"

RE walter's post in: Very strange phenomena on a public forum- A member wrote: "here we go again."

RE walter's post in: More about math, calculators, RPN and programming- A member wrote: "Yet another. I'm sure the moderators know what I mean. If he weren't so active in the 34S and 43S projects, the idea of banning him would not be so worrisome. But he just won't give it a break. I'm afraid some visitors may quit coming to the site ."

But there are also posts in: "Warning Level" which should be the same as in "More about math, calculators, RPN and programming", which just do a slide rule calculation. Smile

Bernhard

renif · (This post was last modified: 05-01-2015 08:16 PM by renif.)

Indead, Bernhard! And for sure the vast majority of users has no problem to find an A=7, C=3, C=3, O=0, R=1, D=9 either, if they really try to.

I have to thank again Dave! First for his exemplary patience and second for his particularly kind clarification why he decided to let the forum software show a user status "On vacation". For me that user status didn't make sense in the beginning, as users of my own forum, banned or not, are dealt the same way in this regard - and by the way, all moderation work there is kept in the background too. So, please forgive my initial incomprehension expressed in a simple question which wasn't meant to offend anyone, nor to defend anyone. But, as I have been told, "that is now the end of the subject as far as" I'm "concerned."

Bye

PANAMATIK · (This post was last modified: 05-05-2015 11:10 PM by PANAMATIK.)

There are still some questions left.

How long does a 'vacation' last? Can I see or estimate the eventual return date as a normal member. It could be worth to wait for a week to get some new posts from a member 'on vacation' but if I know that I must wait a whole month, I would decide something else.

Is it possible to ask as a third party member for a premature end of the 'On vacation' status of a member, because he/she misses his/her interesting posts?

How can I avoid, that the member 'On vacation' does prolong his 'vacation' forever, when he gets used to 'vacations'?

Is the 'On vacation' status an invention made only for members, which normally would be banned forever, because they broke rules, but they are too honored/important to lose them?

Is 'On vacation' a penalty like an imprisonment outside of the community? Or is the idea behind it only the calming down without the idea of a penalty?

Isn't 'On vacation' misleading, because normally somebody does look forward to his 'vacation'.

Does the person who is 'On vacation' enjoy his vacation? Does another member or a moderator enjoy the 'vacation' of a member? Should it be allowed to enjoy this?

Can a moderator be 'On vacation' too? This could be a useful information for any member.

Can moderators get the status 'On vacation' when they are biased to a specific member to remain neutral?

And last but not least:

Can I get the status 'On vacation' deliberately because I want to have a break?

Should it be allowed that voting (A member wrote:... ) of members against a member lead to 'vacations'? Is voting objective? Wouldn't be calculating better?

At least there is no doubt that talking about calculating would be better?

This forum is exceptional also in its management, though everything can be improved to get asymptotically near to perfect.

Bernhard

**Dave Hicks** · (This post was last modified: 05-06-2015 02:14 AM by Dave Hicks.)

Wow. That certainly looks like a comprehensive set of questions around the subject of banning - probably more questions that I have thought of in all the years I've been using or running web forums. So I'll just hit a few that I feel qualified to answer. On vacation is just our phrase for "banned". There is only one phrase for everyone in this category. Bans can be temporary or permanent. (This one happens to be temporary though much longer than that poster's previous temp bans.) A lot of people have been asking for a break for some time so perhaps the vacation really is more for others, though it's just a phrase I copied from another forum I frequent. People on vacation can't PM. I know this person can email though. And people can forward his emails to me. Wink

Some of your other questions are probably best answered by MYBB developers or docs and some might need a psychologist. Others might need a philosopher, or a bunch of them. I can only think of 4 people who have been banned in ~ 17 years of the forum, and only one of these is in effect currently, so I'm just not willing to devote that much time to these. A bunch of people seem to like it here and I'm more interested in them. Like the other mods, I work for free and sometimes you get what you pay for I guess. Wink

On voting and calculating, we really use neither. If it had been purely calculating, his vacation would have been permanent based on the forum warning system. I've actually given him quite a few free passes in the past. Perhaps way too many. Admittedly much of this in years past has been due to not having enough time to follow up on complaints. Now we are better in that respect thanks to having 3 people. But all three of us have other things to do and so we all really prefer a peaceful forum over constantly having: Clean up on aisle 5!

If anyone feels a desire to take a break, by all means please do so. The fact that you don't need help to know when you could use a break from a forum is a good sign! On the other hand if you find yourself interested in talking about calculators, rather than forum drama, then by all means come back! Calculators - not drama - is the purpose of this forum.

PANAMATIK · 05-06-2015, 10:45 AM

(05-06-2015 02:13 AM)Dave Hicks Wrote: Wow. That certainly looks like a comprehensive set of questions around the subject of banning -

Thanks for your reply. I did not expect to get comprehensive answers, but I wanted to know how long Mr. "He Who Cannot Be Named" is "On vacation". Meanwhile I heard it should be 6 month.

This is definitely beyond my imagination. Do you expect that calming down needs 6 month? I understand that it needs some courage to decide that if a maximum ban time of "one week" is not enough, it should be "forever".

Bernhard

**Dave Hicks** · 05-06-2015, 02:45 PM

It was previously beyond mine too. The warning system has 1 week off, 2 weeks, 1 month, and then permanent. The first warning doesn't even result in time off and I don't believe there has been anyone else to even receive more than one. (Which is not to suggest that even receiving 1 is common.)