Sub-forum for HP RPL graphing calculators

[matthiaspaul]

Hi,

I'd like to suggest to create a sub-forum for the family of HP RPL graphing calculators. This would make it easier to locate information specific for these calculators and thereby help to create a growing knowledge pool alongside the discussions.

At a later stage, this sub-forum could be further divided into sub-sub-forums for 28C/28S, 39G/39g+/39gs/39gII/40G/40gs, and 48S/48SX/48G/48G+/48GX/48gII/49G/49gII/49g+/50g, but this would only make sense when enough threads have accumulated to justify the split, and when the other parts of the forum would have been expanded in a similar fashion (for orthogonality).

Greetings,

Matthias

[matthiaspaul]

Hi,

I would like to renew my proposal to create one or two new sub-forums in addition to "General" and "Prime": "RPL" (and optionally "RPN").

Topics specific to calculators supporting RPL should then be posted in this new sub-forum and existing threads from "General" be moved there.

Similar for a possible RPN sub-forum, where I envision all discussions related to RPN-capable calculators (except for the Prime, which is so different in many ways, that it makes sense to keep it separate). "General" would be for topics which are not specific to one or the other group.

I think, this would make it easier to search for information useful for a specfic set of calculators.

Greetings,

Matthias

[renif]

I'd like to support your proposal, Mathias.

RPN programming was used for a wide range of models, simple ones like the Woodstock series via small computers like the 41c series to the Voyager and Pioneer series. These cover different sizes of memory, command set and I/O capabilities, but are still comparable due to their simplistic programming approach. So a common sub-forum 'General' for RPN programming seems logical.

As RPL programming differs significantly from the traditional method of RPN programming and requires a different approach of learning, it probably makes sense setting up an appropriate sub-forum. If that new sub-forum was created, what do you think about some links for newcomers which point to introductions to RPL programming?

Best regards

[d b]

(08-10-2015 11:12 AM)renif Wrote:  I'd like to support your proposal, Mathias.

RPN programming was used for a wide range of models, simple ones like the Woodstock series via small computers like the 41c series to the Voyager and Pioneer series. These cover different sizes of memory, command set and I/O capabilities, but are still comparable due to their simplistic programming approach. So a common sub-forum 'General' for RPN programming seems logical.

As RPL programming differs significantly from the traditional method of RPN programming and requires a different approach of learning, it probably makes sense setting up an appropriate sub-forum. If that new sub-forum was created, what do you think about some links for newcomers which point to introductions to RPL programming?

Best regards

Although I'd hate to see us fragmented even more, renif's version of Paul's idea has merit. A 28/48/49/50 subforum would keep RPL subjects from getting lost, although subjects like the solver could be missed by users of the solver on the 15, 42 & 34. I'll PM this thread's address to Dave in case he's swamped with work and has missed it.

Until enough people want this, maybe it would be useful to feature RPL prominently in the title.

[rprosperi]

Not sure if the moderators are seeking more input on this topic, but here goes.

I think adding RPN and RPL sub-Fora is a good idea; it lets folks focus more on the topics they enjoy, with less chaff to wade through.

That said, I strongly feel this only makes sense if we accept that all existing material stays where it is (mostly in the General Forum). Otherwise, it's an impossible task to expect Dave (or anyone!) to search through many thousands of posts and decide where things should belong. If a thread concerns 'which is better? RPN or RPL' (not to say this ever happens here...) then where would one put it?

The only other "guidance" we should agree on is are these Fora for HP-only families? For example, I think the WP-34S/31S could be discussed in the RPN forum, but this would then split material on these machines between RPN and "Not quite HP Calculators - but related". Personally, I think it's best to keep a family within a single Forum, again so I know where to look.

I suppose the new ones could be "HP RPN" and "HP RPL" to make it clear for new members.

Just some thoughts to provoke discussion...

[Thomas Radtke]

For finding information, I always use google with site:hpmuseum.org. For browsing, I use the View New Posts or View Today's Posts buttons, and so I actually have no need for subfora at all (most thread titles are very descriptive, cudos to all users!).

With this approach I rarely notice where threads are located, so adding another one would do no harm. OTOH, the general forum, as a legacy of the old forum before the wp34s and Prime noise, has some tradition.

Quote:I suppose the new ones could be "HP RPN" and "HP RPL" to make it clear for new members.

IMO RPL uses RPN, but RPN is not necessarily embedded in RPL. This is not even consent among current members I admit, but was heavily discussed. New users will become biased about this question, so this is not a good idea .

[Les Bell]

(08-13-2015 12:31 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  I suppose the new ones could be "HP RPN" and "HP RPL" to make it clear for new members.

Although algebraic machines seem mostly to be of little interest to the membership, I do see one difficulty: where does this leave the HP-71B?

In general, though, I support the proposal; I don't have much interest in RPL (unless I drag my 48GX out again), so this would make skimming subject lines a little faster. On the other hand, there are some cross-series discussions, like build quality, repair techniques, etc. which might be hard to place.

[rprosperi]

(08-13-2015 10:43 PM)Les Bell Wrote:  I do see one difficulty: where does this leave the HP-71B?

They would stay in the General Forum, just as it is now. Other topics that include RPN or RPL machines, but not necessarily about RPN- or RPL-specifics would stay there too. No reason to change or remove the General section, many (most?) topics are still general.

[d b]

(08-13-2015 10:43 PM)Les Bell Wrote:  ..... there are some cross-series discussions, like build quality, repair techniques, etc. which might be hard to place.

Which is a good reason for what folks here do well now: use descriptive titles. Also; the more places there are to look, the more will be missed. But being who we are, we discuss methods here. We're tinkerers.

This is an idea but IMHO, I'd like us to be less and not more fragmented. I know that I at least have to peruse two sub forums just for my own interests (general and not "not quite"). I look at the others too and occasionally find something interesting where i didn't expect it. If it was just me (which it is NOT), I'd combine general, not hp, & not remotely, and use Thomas Radtke's google method.

There's always something that can be improved, unless we're talking about the 41CL........or the 43!

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(08-13-2015 11:50 PM)Den Belillo (Martinez Ca.) Wrote:  I'd like us to be less and not more fragmented.

I concur.

[Gerald H]

I agree, less fragmentation desirable, I often don't know how I would classify a problem.

An exception could be the General Software Library, where each calculator could have its own section (similar to Old Forum).

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(08-14-2015 09:05 AM)Gerald H Wrote:  An exception could be the General Software Library, where each calculator could have its own section (similar to Old Forum).

Good idea!

[rprosperi]

I don't see that adding new forum areas will fragment the user base. It's just a way of making it easier to find stuff when looking for certain topics. The google method is excellent if looking for something precise, but if I want to find all the threads about programming tips for RPL machines (so I would look through the list of post titles) I now have to look through the General section, and find these among many thousands of mostly unrelated topics.

And I suppose if a member wanted to look at only RPN topics, and limited his/her searching and contributing to that forum, then I guess that's his/her right, but I don't see that the very existence of that forum causes one to do that.

I agree with the implied point that we want to be a more inclusive group, but just don't think the number of Forums dramatically affects that. If that were the case, why not just have one or two Forums?

And I too think Gerald's suggestion about the Libraries is a good one.

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(08-14-2015 06:58 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  If that were the case, why not just have one or two Forums?

Yep, to me General and Prime was all that was needed, and the primary cause of the new look, IIRC.
I do not like the plethora of sub-forums I see on so many sites.

But... our host, as usual, will chose what's best for all. :)

[d b]

(08-14-2015 07:52 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  .. our host, as usual, will chose what's best for all.

Yes, and with almost 3000 registered members; I guarantee he will have a lot of ideas to choose from ;-)

IF and until anything gets changed, the best plan is to keep doing what we do and give succinct titles that reflect the main subject(s) of our threads.

Reading the search results for view new posts can be like going to the flea market. You don't know what you want till you see it.

[matthiaspaul]

Well, I don't think a few more sub-forums would cause fragmentation of the user base, just give the forum a more rounded-out structure in general.

> HP Calculators (and very old HP Computers)
>> General Forum
>> HP RPN
>> HP RPL
>> HP Prime
>> Articles Forum
>> Classifieds

> HP Software Libraries
>> HP-41C Software Library
>> HP-65/67/97 Software Library
>> HP Prime Software Library
>> General Software Library

> Not HP Calculators
>> Not quite HP Calculators - but related
>> Not remotely HP Calculators
>> Test forum
>> Forum Issues and Administration

Further, it would be possible to reorder some of the existing forums to group semantically related topics together, like:

> HP calculators
>> General
>>> General software
>> HP RPN
>>> HP 41 series software
>>> HP 65/67/97 series software
>> HP RPL
>>> HP 48/49/50 series software
>> HP Prime
>>> HP Prime software

> Miscellaneous
>> Articles
>> Remotely HP calculator related
>> Off-topic
>> Marketplace
>> Forum test
>> Forum issues and administration

Navigating three-level deep forums is not any more difficult than navigating two-level deep forums (you never need more than two clicks) if the software can be configured to show links to the two next deeper sub-levels rather than only one level in the forum index. (I know that IPB supports this, but I'm not sure about MyBB.)

Another approach to consider is to make the RPN, RPL and Prime forums sub-forums of General, like:

> HP calculators
>> General
>>> HP RPN
>>> HP RPL
>>> HP Prime
...

Depending on the capabilities of the forum software, it might be possible to support "flat views", where all threads in sub-forums of "General" would show up in "General" as well, so that the list of threads gets narrowed down the deeper you move in the structure.

Greetings,

Matthias

[Claudio L.]

(08-17-2015 01:04 AM)matthiaspaul Wrote:  Well, I don't think a few more sub-forums would cause fragmentation of the user base

I think it does cause fragmentation. If there was a large volume of posts I'd say subdividing is justified, but at the current volume they should probably consolidate, not divide.
I think the majority of the posts are not programming language-specific, but simply try to resolve a particular problem, which requires: math knowledge, calculator knowledge, some programming language and common sense. Many times a problem is solved in one language and people follow up with ports to other calculators, all in the same thread. Sometimes the solution is presented in a programming language for a different calculator than what the original poster asked, but can be easily ported, etc.
For example, I found quite often there are posts in the HP Prime forum that have interesting math concepts, which users of other calculators/languages might be interested as well. I don't have a Prime but I follow that sub-forum too.
I see the same people writing on all forums, then why divide it?

I agree that the General and the Prime should probably be the only forums. The only reason to split the Prime is because of large volume of posts, not necessarily because of the content being unrelated.