Does the HP-35S need a 'guide for dummies' how-to guide?

[Didier Lachieze]

(03-10-2015 04:54 AM)JimP Wrote:  aren't there a bunch of "tutorial" - like pdfs available from HP for the 35S?

They can be found here.

[toml_12953]

I'd buy one as long as it was hardcopy and not in pdf form. I love my 35S! IMHO, the few bugs reported are blown way out of proportion. I've been using it since it first came out and none of the bugs has prevented me from doing the things I want to do. I've never had a problem with checksums. They've always matched the manual for the programs I've tried. COS near 90 is close enough for my purposes. Sure, I'd like it to display i when I try to calculate the square root of -1 and I'd like to be able to input into indexed locations directly but what I'd like and what I need are two different things. The 35S does what I need.

[Tugdual]

(03-10-2015 09:29 AM)toml_12953 Wrote:  I'd buy one as long as it was hardcopy and not in pdf form. I love my 35S! IMHO, the few bugs reported are blown way out of proportion. I've been using it since it first came out and none of the bugs has prevented me from doing the things I want to do. I've never had a problem with checksums. They've always matched the manual for the programs I've tried. COS near 90 is close enough for my purposes. Sure, I'd like it to display i when I try to calculate the square root of -1 and I'd like to be able to input into indexed locations directly but what I'd like and what I need are two different things. The 35S does what I need.

I subscribe to this. The 35S is quick and easy, quite cheap and quite powerful. It rapidly replaced my collector 15C.

[Jlouis]

(03-10-2015 09:29 AM)toml_12953 Wrote:  I'd buy one as long as it was hardcopy and not in pdf form. I love my 35S! IMHO, the few bugs reported are blown way out of proportion. I've been using it since it first came out and none of the bugs has prevented me from doing the things I want to do. I've never had a problem with checksums. They've always matched the manual for the programs I've tried. COS near 90 is close enough for my purposes. Sure, I'd like it to display i when I try to calculate the square root of -1 and I'd like to be able to input into indexed locations directly but what I'd like and what I need are two different things. The 35S does what I need.

+1

But if it was only in pdf, I'will get one, anyway.

[MarkHaysHarris777]

(03-09-2015 05:08 PM)Don Shepherd Wrote:  I think we are in the midst of another technological revolution that will have major impacts on calculators . . . [b]ut for the mainstream, I think it is dead. Same with RPL.

Of course, I may be wrong!

Of course you are correct, and we're seeing the results the world over with Arduino and Raspberry PI, and others. The current phase of the revolution is that 'normal' everyday people (heck, even kids, maybe especially kids) are able to embed their 'calculator' in anything-- from a helicopter drone, to a kitty box feeder, to a seismic monitor... limited only by the DIY person's imagination.

All of my son's heavy calculating needs at ISU are met almost exclusively by Excel. He uses it for everything/ and I mean everything; most home work assignments, most personal computing|calculating, and all his engineering work so far. The students at ISU take an entry level class where they focus on Excel (and then Excel is expected to be used for the remainder of their time in the program!).

In the seventies you had three choices 1) use a slide rule, 2) spend some thousands on an MITS Atair 8800 and try to get Bill Gates BASIC going, or 3) buy a scientific calculator from HP or TI. All of those options today are not only unnecessary, they are obsolete. Today spread sheets, Mathematica, Sci-PI, Wolfram, and others dominate the computing arena... mostly I think because of the ability to collaborate with those tools; fully programmable, fully portable (tablets, phones, iPads, notebooks, Chromebooks, Netbooks) and way more accurate than a hand-held calculator... even more accurate than the WP34s, I must confess.

Specific engineers over a 'certain' age are going to be the hold-outs for a really good calculator (and I am one of them).

RPN vs RPL comes down to use case: 1) interactive: RPN, 2) programmed: RPL.

Conclusion: Calculators, from a marketing perspective, are dead... and there is one exception and that's the mathematical classroom (mostly high school). TI has that market sewn up. It would not surprise me to find that HP stops making calculators completely.

PS I read it twice... tried hard not to offend anyone...


Cheers,
marcus

[MarkHaysHarris777]

(03-08-2015 12:11 PM)MagyarBoy Wrote:  My question is, would the potential users of this calculator, benefit from such a guide? Basically a guide for the complete newbie.

The answer is yes. The answer goes back to Walter's RTFM comment. He does not make the comment because there's a (problem), nor does he make the comment (IMHO) because he wrote a book... he makes the comment because 'he' learns best by 'reading'.

I have been a teacher for many years... everything from theology to sailing, and computers and engineering in the middle. Every good teacher knows that their students are going to fall into at least five learning modes... and to reach each of those students the teacher must address EACH of those modes. Some learn best by 'hearing,' some best by tactile manipulation, some learn best through 'reading,' and many students use a combination particular to their home of origin, their mother language, the ideals of their parents, and the techniques used by 'their' teachers growing up.

There will 'always' be people who will benefit from a manual. I learn best from 'doing' and from 'hearing'. I want to do it myself, and I want to ask questions; and get answers (I can read, of course, but I prefer to 'hear' and to 'do'). Some people are quite the opposite... they would rather 'read' ... and for them, the manual is perfect.

Having said all of that, I still love books, and I have a personal library with thousands of books--- I always buy the manual if its available; just because. I even bought Walter's book... and I love it!

Go ahead, write it... I'd like a copy!

Cheers,
marcus

[Don Shepherd]

Quote:RPN vs RPL comes down to use case: 1) interactive: RPN, 2) programmed: RPL.

I think there is a third case: old guys who just love the simplicity of RPN keystroke programming. While I certainly recognize the power of RPL, I never was willing to spend the time it would take to learn how to use it. RPN keystroke programming is elegant and simple, particularly on machines like the 12c and 65.

[MagyarBoy]

Thanks for your comments everyone, I will endeavor to create a guide for the HP-35S, aimed at someone totally unfamiliar with HP calculators (no prior exposure to RPN etc.), and handhold them into fluency with use and programming. (& I should have said this earlier, I am a budding tech writer and I was hoping to market this manual on a website, I hope this doesn't taint my effort in the eyes of everyone here). I intend to make soft & hardcopy available. And I'm not sure how helpful that guide might be for everyone here, as most of the users here strike me as being pretty savvy around HP calculators.

[rprosperi]

(03-18-2015 11:05 AM)MagyarBoy Wrote:  Thanks for your comments everyone, I will endeavor to create a guide for the HP-35S, aimed at someone totally unfamiliar with HP calculators (no prior exposure to RPN etc.), and handhold them into fluency with use and programming. (& I should have said this earlier, I am a budding tech writer and I was hoping to market this manual on a website, I hope this doesn't taint my effort in the eyes of everyone here). I intend to make soft & hardcopy available. And I'm not sure how helpful that guide might be for everyone here, as most of the users here strike me as being pretty savvy around HP calculators.

While proofreading such a document could be tedious and expensive if outsourced, my suggestion is to post it here when ready, and describe it as "fully correct and free from errors". Then, stand back... I guarantee you've never witnessed such terrifyingly quick and thorough bug/error detection along with generally positive constructive criticism.

[Jlouis]

(03-18-2015 11:05 AM)MagyarBoy Wrote:  Thanks for your comments everyone, I will endeavor to create a guide for the HP-35S, aimed at someone totally unfamiliar with HP calculators (no prior exposure to RPN etc.), and handhold them into fluency with use and programming. (& I should have said this earlier, I am a budding tech writer and I was hoping to market this manual on a website, I hope this doesn't taint my effort in the eyes of everyone here). I intend to make soft & hardcopy available. And I'm not sure how helpful that guide might be for everyone here, as most of the users here strike me as being pretty savvy around HP calculators.

I think not everybody here are this savvy in hp calculators. I am not, at least. I just like to learn here, with those bright, sometimes geniuos, people around here, so your idea can have an audience here.

I use a 15c since 1988, but besides collecting, only now I am begining to explore others calculators, like 28s and the 48 (very, very late at the party, I know, but you can't imagine how fun I have with these beasts).

Like Marcus said, I like to read a real manual and I will be glad to buy a "dummies" 35s manual.

I'm sure I have lots to learn yet.

JL

[supernumero]

(03-08-2015 12:11 PM)MagyarBoy Wrote:  I'm posting to ask about the HP-35S. AFAIK there is no 'HP-35S for Dummies' type of manual, that assumes the user needs handholding and spoon-feeding, to learn the operation and programming of this calculator. Is this right?

My question is, would the potential users of this calculator, benefit from such a guide? Basically a guide for the complete newbie.

Although it may not make a lot of sense if the goal is reaching the largest audience possible, I would personally find additional documentation for the 34S far more interesting than for the 35S. The 34S is a *very* unique calculator. If it were an HP product bundled with vintage 1970's or 1980's documentation it'd surely include (alongside a long user guide) a thick "applications" manual à la 42S.

While a lot of older documentation, such as the manuals for the 32S, 32Sii and 33S (and other third-party publications) are largely applicable to the 35S, the 34S is sufficiently different and more unique in crucial respects that additional documentation for it, whether at the "For Dummies" or at the "Applications" level, would be a much more original contribution---although potentially for a much smaller readership. Just an opinion.

SN

[MagyarBoy]

Oh, BTW this is me IRL (or at least, this is my effort IRL), hope this isn't considered spam:

http://www.stacystechpubs.com/

I keep revising the website over time, probably I'll update it in the next few days to emphasize more fully the HP-35S documentation is coming soon, and worry about the other To-Be-Written guides later on.

Stay tuned and thanks again for the feedback.

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(03-19-2015 05:32 AM)MagyarBoy Wrote:  Oh, BTW this is me IRL (or at least, this is my effort IRL), hope this isn't considered spam:

http://www.stacystechpubs.com/

I keep revising the website over time, probably I'll update it in the next few days to emphasize more fully the HP-35S documentation is coming soon, and worry about the other To-Be-Written guides later on.

Stay tuned and thanks again for the feedback.

At least there's a picture of a wp 34s...

[Thomas Radtke]

(03-19-2015 05:32 AM)MagyarBoy Wrote:  Oh, BTW this is me IRL (or at least, this is my effort IRL), hope this isn't considered spam:

A link to a Technical Writer's website can never be spam!

[Derek W]

(03-09-2015 05:08 PM)Don Shepherd Wrote:  Nobody used slide rules after the HP-35 came out.

Don, while I fully agree with the points you're making, I can't let this one pass without a little anecdote.

I work as an engineer in the water industry and on occasion attend meetings where a discussion revolves around the number, diameter and height of cylindrical tanks required to achieve a certain volume. Having a slide rule with a pi/4 cursor mark over the A/B scales makes this calculation extremely quick, since it gives a direct conversion from diameter to area, so a single slide move then gives a scale showing height vs volume. I can have the answer well before others have finished putting values into their calculator or even into a spreadsheet.

Since many younger engineers have never even heard of a slide rule, let alone seen or used one, it's nice to remind them that new technology doesn't always outperform old. However I certainly wouldn't want to abandon Excel or my HPs and go back to a slide rule for most uses!

[Don Shepherd]

(03-19-2015 03:44 PM)Derek W Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 05:08 PM)Don Shepherd Wrote:  Nobody used slide rules after the HP-35 came out.

Don, while I fully agree with the points you're making, I can't let this one pass without a little anecdote.

I work as an engineer in the water industry and on occasion attend meetings where a discussion revolves around the number, diameter and height of cylindrical tanks required to achieve a certain volume. Having a slide rule with a pi/4 cursor mark over the A/B scales makes this calculation extremely quick, since it gives a direct conversion from diameter to area, so a single slide move then gives a scale showing height vs volume. I can have the answer well before others have finished putting values into their calculator or even into a spreadsheet.

Since many younger engineers have never even heard of a slide rule, let alone seen or used one, it's nice to remind them that new technology doesn't always outperform old. However I certainly wouldn't want to abandon Excel or my HPs and go back to a slide rule for most uses!

That's a good point, Derek. Sometimes older is better (easy for me to say since I'm 64!). I still proudly wear my Pulsar LED watch from 1973, the first digital watch. It does exactly one thing--tells you the time when you press the button--but it does it with style.

[Jlouis]

(03-19-2015 03:44 PM)Derek W Wrote:  It does exactly one thing--tells you the time when you press the button--but it does it with style.

Exatly why real calculators are better than smartphone apps.

[knife31]

Heck
My wife says I need A Dummies Guide for just about everything.

[peacecalc]

Hello knife31,

in 9 years can change a lot, even someones brain!

I hope your wife states this with humor, if not, I beg your pardon.

[knife31]

Not sure she was holding a frying pan