HP-11C: What is going on with the asking prices?

[Katie Wasserman]

(03-19-2015 04:21 PM)jebem Wrote:  Even a 10C can have a final auction price as high as a 15C or a 16C.

The 10C is by far the rarest of the voyager series, it was only available for a short period of time, so it has a high collectable value. The 11C, 15C and 16C are still used by a lot of people like us and sell for a lot becasue they are the most robust calculators ever made for technical people, IMHO. The longevity of the 12C never ceases to amaze me, almost 34 years of production. I wonder if there will be a 35th year special addition? Maybe something in jade (it's the traditional gift for 35 years of being together)

[Eddie W. Shore]

Ahhh... the HP 11C, one of the few calculators left I still yet to own.

[Adam Vaughn]

The 11C is an interesting calculator for sure. When I found mine (at a flea market which normally caters to old tube radios, of all places), I wasn't quite sure what it was. I had seen the 12C still being sold at Staples, and was vaguely familiar with the 15C, but didn't know anything about the rest of the Voyager series. I thought maybe the 11C was closer to the 12C, but I had no real idea; even so, I decided to pick it up, and it's one of the best $35 I've ever spent! Of course, at the same time, I passed up on a HP 41C being sold for a similar price, and have been kicking myself ever since...

As far as prices on TAS go, there are always going to be fools listing items at starting prices/Buy It Nows far exceeding what their actual market value is. To me, the real bellwether of an item's worth is to go into the sidebar, and select "Show only sold items" (completed items also works, but using sold items instead weeds out the overpriced stuff which didn't sell). Of course, all too often, non-TAS sellers will just search for something on TAS, spot one of these overpriced items, and assume that that's the going rate.............
-Adam

[Les Bell]

(03-19-2015 12:08 PM)John Galt Wrote:  Imagine my confusion when I first read discussions about CAS (with the Prime).

Oh, that's one we should all know, since we all suffer from it: Calculator Acquisition Syndrome.

[Les Bell]

(03-19-2015 07:17 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Basically, most (all?) of the 15C-unique features are things I use rarely so they never became familiar.

That's my feeling, as well; there's a lot of functionality "hidden" behind the keyboard of the 15C. It's very cleverly done, and very powerful, but you have to use it a lot to become really familiar and comfortable with it. I have a similar feeling about the 12C - from memory, it has some probably-quite-important toggle to do with "Canadian mortgages" or similar, hidden behind a gold-shifted key that isn't even labeled.

However, there's enough commonality between the 11C and 15C - their keyboard layout for the stuff that is labeled is near-identical - that you can use either calculator for the simple stuff. When the going gets tough, the 11C simply can't hack it, and then I either pull out the manual for the 15C to remind myself, or I grab my 41C with Advantage ROM. That happens pretty rarely, though. And the Pioneers are so small that I can easily carry both the 11C and 16C in my jacket pockets (or even in the hidden pockets of my ScottEVest shirts).

I don't understand any price pressure on the 11C, though - they're common enough that I've picked up two in the last year and a bit. The first one, I got locally for $A100 or so, and the second via TAS for around $US27 plus modest shipping - and that one came with the original box, case and manual. I think that seller (in the Philippines) had a few, and so I'm probably not the only person around here who got lucky. Perhaps some sellers are feeling a bit over-optimistic.

[rprosperi]

(03-20-2015 04:08 AM)Les Bell Wrote:  

(03-19-2015 07:17 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Basically, most (all?) of the 15C-unique features are things I use rarely so they never became familiar.

That's my feeling, as well; there's a lot of functionality "hidden" behind the keyboard of the 15C. It's very cleverly done, and very powerful, but you have to use it a lot to become really familiar and comfortable with it. I have a similar feeling about the 12C - from memory, it has some probably-quite-important toggle to do with "Canadian mortgages" or similar, hidden behind a gold-shifted key that isn't even labeled.

However, there's enough commonality between the 11C and 15C - their keyboard layout for the stuff that is labeled is near-identical - that you can use either calculator for the simple stuff. When the going gets tough, the 11C simply can't hack it, and then I either pull out the manual for the 15C to remind myself, or I grab my 41C with Advantage ROM. That happens pretty rarely, though. And the Pioneers are so small that I can easily carry both the 11C and 16C in my jacket pockets (or even in the hidden pockets of my ScottEVest shirts).

I don't understand any price pressure on the 11C, though - they're common enough that I've picked up two in the last year and a bit. The first one, I got locally for $A100 or so, and the second via TAS for around $US27 plus modest shipping - and that one came with the original box, case and manual. I think that seller (in the Philippines) had a few, and so I'm probably not the only person around here who got lucky. Perhaps some sellers are feeling a bit over-optimistic.

I agree with your comments Les, stated better than my quick reply. But I'm sure you meant "... the Voyagers are so small...".

Pricing on TAS is wacky and no amount of studying or analyzing will ever make sense of it, and this is particularly true for Voyager models. In the past 2 weeks I saw a 16C in near-mint condition sold for $37 and a relatively beat-up one go for ~$160?. (And no, I didn't know about the $37 one until it was gone.)

The keys to buying these, as everything else, is patience and research. Sellers "know" that HP calcs are hotly pursued by collectors, so they throw them out there with silly prices, and unfortunately even sillier buyers pay them. I must admit to being silly from time to time as well, but I'm feeleing much better now.

One tip I can suggest for Voyager buyers - if you are looking for the very nice HP leather cases, don't search for just the case, look for 12Cs and read the details. Often they are sold together far cheaper than the cases do alone. I recently got a 12C with brown leather case, both essentially new, for about $30. Which gave me anothr 'spare' 12C to do a little more Calculator Philanthropy, gifting to a deserving friend or relative to convert them from the dark side.

[Jlouis]

(03-20-2015 03:56 AM)Les Bell Wrote:  

(03-19-2015 12:08 PM)John Galt Wrote:  Imagine my confusion when I first read discussions about CAS (with the Prime).

Oh, that's one we should all know, since we all suffer from it: Calculator Acquisition Syndrome.

Great idea Les,

I will make a t-shirt written "I HAVE C.A.S."

Uncurable disease!

[John Galt]

(03-20-2015 12:55 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Pricing on TAS is wacky and no amount of studying or analyzing will ever make sense of it, and this is particularly true for Voyager models. In the past 2 weeks I saw a 16C in near-mint condition sold for $37 and a relatively beat-up one go for ~$160?.

I saw that, and another one that does not power up and was being sold for parts go for $81.

Another 16C "Great shape - works!!" Looked perfect to me. $18.67. Free shipping.

[rprosperi]

(03-20-2015 01:58 PM)John Galt Wrote:  

(03-20-2015 12:55 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Pricing on TAS is wacky and no amount of studying or analyzing will ever make sense of it, and this is particularly true for Voyager models. In the past 2 weeks I saw a 16C in near-mint condition sold for $37 and a relatively beat-up one go for ~$160?.

I saw that, and another one that does not power up and was being sold for parts go for $81.

Another 16C "Great shape - works!!" Looked perfect to me. $18.67. Free shipping.

Can you feel the wind of all the people rushing to find that $18.67 16C ???

I looked very briefly to see what may be wrong, but didn't see it. But I did see a listing for a "Hewlet Packard TI-1450 LED Caculator". I don't think this sale will end well...

[Dave Frederickson]

Something I've observed, is when we start posting about a particular model the number of listings for that model on eBay increases and the prices go up. It's not that far-fetched to conclude that the blood-thirsty re-sellers on eBay read this forum regularly and pull out old stock and/or jack up the prices based upon our posts.

Dave

[John Galt]

(03-20-2015 03:28 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  I looked very briefly to see what may be wrong, but didn't see it.

I don't blame you for wondering. Its item number was 151540792365.

Oh, it needed batteries. That explains it.

[rprosperi]

(03-20-2015 03:48 PM)John Galt Wrote:  

(03-20-2015 03:28 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  I looked very briefly to see what may be wrong, but didn't see it.

I don't blame you for wondering. Its item number was 151540792365.

Oh, it needed batteries. That explains it.

Ahhh, I misunderstood, I thought it was a current listing.

Now you've done it John! I may have to start looking for 16Cs again! Damn.

[John Galt]

To think, it was a seven day auction, starting at $3.17...?

The only oddity I can think of was that it was listed as "scientific calculator" whereas HP's official designation (I think) is "computer scientist".

That was one lucky buyer.

[johnb]

(03-19-2015 01:25 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  I honestly prefer it over a 15C for basic number crunching. This is the machine that goes everywhere with me in my briefcase (in an HP leather case of course). I carried a 12C for many years, but finally got an 11C and "upgraded".

You too? Me too! :-O Even though I also have a 15C and a 16C in my collection, the 11C is my daily "go to" calculator in my briefcase. (If I know I'll really have to do some serious crunching, manipulations, or date math, I trudge out the 48G.)

[johnb]

(03-20-2015 03:28 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  But I did see a listing for a "Hewlet Packard TI-1450 LED Caculator". I don't think this sale will end well...

Gee, I don't see why? :-)

Little-known (and even less cared about) engineer Fred Hewlet built the TI-1450 LED (Law Enforcement Division) "caculator" for use aboard the 1948-49 Packard police cruiser models.

Being that it was 1948, the device took up much of the front passenger position, and the police really didn't know what to do with it, resulting in pretty poor sales turnover. So it's a rarity.

[Jlouis]

(03-20-2015 06:14 PM)johnb Wrote:  

(03-20-2015 03:28 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  But I did see a listing for a "Hewlet Packard TI-1450 LED Caculator". I don't think this sale will end well...

Gee, I don't see why? :-)

Little-known (and even less cared about) engineer Fred Hewlet built the TI-1450 LED (Law Enforcement Division) "caculator" for use aboard the 1948-49 Packard police cruiser models.

Being that it was 1948, the device took up much of the front passenger position, and the police really didn't know what to do with it, resulting in pretty poor sales turnover. So it's a rarity.

This is april fools day already?

But a very nice story, I almost believed, because exact science guys normaly are not só criative. LOL,

[Adam Vaughn]

(03-20-2015 03:56 AM)Les Bell Wrote:  

(03-19-2015 12:08 PM)John Galt Wrote:  Imagine my confusion when I first read discussions about CAS (with the Prime).

Oh, that's one we should all know, since we all suffer from it: Calculator Acquisition Syndrome.

Yep, it's definitely a thing........



Taken shortly before I bought someone else's collection of old TI calculators, more than doubling what I already had......
-Adam

[Les Bell]

(03-20-2015 12:55 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  I agree with your comments Les, stated better than my quick reply. But I'm sure you meant "... the Voyagers are so small...".

Well caught! Voyagers, indeed!

[jebem]

Well, I have a few days at home, preparing myself for delivering the new training courses on the new VMware vSphere version 6 virtualization platform just released a couple of weeks ago, before traveling south once again to Brazil. Yes, I enjoy my work, specially because I'm "forced" to travel there

So, I took some photos of my HP-11C new acquisition to share with you.

As has been mentioned in this MoHPC site by several experts, namely Katie (sorry if I can't remember other names right now - no offense intended), HP have deployed the best in class LSI technology in their calculator heydays.

This LSI technology used in these machine series is just amazing.
After removing the batteries I have left the machine to rest for more than two days. Today I have inserted the batteries once again to run the diagnostics for one of the presented pictures.
Well, after powering ON the calculator, I was presented with the exact stack contents I had two days ago!
This means an excellent low leakage battery backup capacitor able to retain its charge for several days in a row, and above all, an extremely low leakage static memory - probably the best ever made!

Edited: I managed to find Katie's comments on battery consumption and MOS technology in the old forum and in the new one here.