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fhub · (This post was last modified: 01-19-2016 01:44 PM by fhub.)

(01-18-2016 09:07 PM)Claudio L. Wrote: I often open the 50g picture from Wikipedia in my browser, has a nice resolution and you can read all keys just fine.

Well, I've now also made my own HP50/newRPL picture - it's made from my old HP50 emulator skin, where I've removed all key labels which are not useful in newRPL (just to make it more clear).

It would be great if such a picture would be integrated into the newRPL screen, so that there's no need to open it as separated window (similar to my 2nd attachment).

And it would even be greater, if one could click on the keys of this picture to get the corresponding newRPL function(s) ...

Franz

Claudio L. · 01-19-2016, 08:14 PM

(01-19-2016 01:21 PM)fhub Wrote:
(01-18-2016 09:07 PM)Claudio L. Wrote: I often open the 50g picture from Wikipedia in my browser, has a nice resolution and you can read all keys just fine.
Well, I've now also made my own HP50/newRPL picture - it's made from my old HP50 emulator skin, where I've removed all key labels which are not useful in newRPL (just to make it more clear).

It would be great if such a picture would be integrated into the newRPL screen, so that there's no need to open it as separated window (similar to my 2nd attachment).

And it would even be greater, if one could click on the keys of this picture to get the corresponding newRPL function(s) ...

Franz

I have to admit I like it. I can add it to the simulator, but first you need to make sure that:

The picture doesn't come from any copyrighted source, and that you were authorized to modify that picture and we are authorized to use the picture and release it under the BSD license.
Remove the HP logo.

fhub · 01-19-2016, 08:33 PM

(01-19-2016 08:14 PM)Claudio L. Wrote: I have to admit I like it. I can add it to the simulator, but first you need to make sure that:

The picture doesn't come from any copyrighted source, and that you were authorized to modify that picture and we are authorized to use the picture and release it under the BSD license.

Remove the HP logo.

Well, the picture is just one of hundreds of HP-50g images that are available on the internet on dozens of places, so I can't tell you exactly where I took it from.
I've modified it for my own use - I don't care about such crap like 'copyright for pictures'.
(removing the logo won't of course be a problem)

Franz

Claudio L. · 01-19-2016, 10:19 PM

(01-19-2016 08:33 PM)fhub Wrote: Well, the picture is just one of hundreds of HP-50g images that are available on the internet on dozens of places, so I can't tell you exactly where I took it from.
I've modified it for my own use - I don't care about such crap like 'copyright for pictures'.
(removing the logo won't of course be a problem)

Pictures are copyrighted just like software is, so I cannot put a picture (modified or not) unless I know there's authorization from the original author to use it.
You may not care for your own personal use, but I'm publishing something for others to use, and those things need to be handled carefully.

http://lifehacker.com/follow-this-chart-...1615584870

fhub · 01-19-2016, 10:38 PM

(01-19-2016 10:19 PM)Claudio L. Wrote: Pictures are copyrighted just like software is, so I cannot put a picture (modified or not) unless I know there's authorization from the original author to use it.

I think I've found now the source from where I took the picture:
http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/pc/emulators/...eal50g.zip

If that's not enough 'authorization' for you, then maybe you should complain at hpcalc.org ... Wink

Franz

Claudio L. · 01-19-2016, 11:00 PM

(01-19-2016 10:38 PM)fhub Wrote:
(01-19-2016 10:19 PM)Claudio L. Wrote: Pictures are copyrighted just like software is, so I cannot put a picture (modified or not) unless I know there's authorization from the original author to use it.
I think I've found now the source from where I took the picture:
http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/pc/emulators/...eal50g.zip

If that's not enough 'authorization' for you, then maybe you should complain at hpcalc.org ...

Franz

Well... no, that image has not enough authorization (I like even less the fact it says it was based on work from HP).
However, if you could redo the modifications but based on the Wikipedia picture here there wouldn't be any issues, as it is clearly stated in the public domain by its author.
The large picture has a decent resolution to work for most screens (1600 pixels high). I would certainly appreciate your contribution in that regards, and I'll work towards a more user-friendly simulator with actual keys.

Nigel (UK) · 01-20-2016, 09:25 AM

One point about the units menu - if I'm entering a number, with the "top-level" units menu displayed, and I press LENGTH (for example), the number gets entered onto the stack but the LENGTH menu doesn't open unless I press LENGTH again. Is this intended?

Nigel (UK)

Claudio L. · 01-20-2016, 01:59 PM

(01-20-2016 09:25 AM)Nigel (UK) Wrote: One point about the units menu - if I'm entering a number, with the "top-level" units menu displayed, and I press LENGTH (for example), the number gets entered onto the stack but the LENGTH menu doesn't open unless I press LENGTH again. Is this intended?

Nigel (UK)

Not intended, that's a bug. I fixed it and uploaded a new ROM, so feel free to download it and flash it.
It fixes this and also adds the behavior that programs written as immediate secondaries :: ... ; are executed in a menu without closing the command line (similar to :: TakeOver ... ; in sysRPL), while normal programs << ... >> will try to compile the command line before executing.

fhub · (This post was last modified: 01-20-2016 02:12 PM by fhub.)

(01-19-2016 11:00 PM)Claudio L. Wrote: However, if you could redo the modifications but based on the Wikipedia picture here there wouldn't be any issues, as it is clearly stated in the public domain by its author.

Ok, I've now done the same with the picture from Wikipedia.
For the attachment I've reduced the size to 50% and changed it to JPG just to make the file smaller (but of course I still have the original size in PNG).
I also added 'CLEAR' to the backspace key, because newRPL supports this key - let me know if there are still other key labels working in newRPL, maybe I have removed too many of them.

Quote:The large picture has a decent resolution to work for most screens (1600 pixels high). I would certainly appreciate your contribution in that regards, and I'll work towards a more user-friendly simulator with actual keys.

Well, this large picture is certainly a problem for most users, because I'm quite sure that the vast majority doesn't have such a big screen (with a vertical solution of 1600 pixels) - that's almost a UltraHD-TV screen!
So I think it's not a good idea to make your newRPL simulator that big, half of the size would certainly be better (or at least make it resizable).

Now a few other questions:
1) should I remove the text 'HP 50g Graphing Calculator' and/or the HP-logo from the picture (and maybe replace it with 'newRPL')?
2) how should your newRPL program look?
a) Do you want the original HP50g picture and put your display exactly on the original place?
b) Or would you prefer something like my own HP50 skin (2nd attachment) with the display placed beside the calculator? (that would reduce the vertical size again a bit more, so it would fit on more notebook screens)

Franz

Claudio L. · (This post was last modified: 01-20-2016 03:47 PM by Claudio L..)

(01-20-2016 02:10 PM)fhub Wrote: Ok, I've now done the same with the picture from Wikipedia.
For the attachment I've reduced the size to 50% and changed it to JPG just to make the file smaller (but of course I still have the original size in PNG).
I also added 'CLEAR' to the backspace key, because newRPL supports this key - let me know if there are still other key labels working in newRPL, maybe I have removed too many of them.

Looks great!
I'd have to sit down and look at the keyboard bindings to see all the things that were added.
Well work on that over time.

(01-20-2016 02:10 PM)fhub Wrote: Well, this large picture is certainly a problem for most users, because I'm quite sure that the vast majority doesn't have such a big screen (with a vertical solution of 1600 pixels) - that's almost a UltraHD-TV screen!
So I think it's not a good idea to make your newRPL simulator that big, half of the size would certainly be better (or at least make it resizable).

1600 pixels is not that crazy, if you put the screen on the side of the keyboard you'll end up with about 1000 pixels, which is perfect for fullscreen on the most common 1920x1080 resolution. Tablets nowadays come in 2560x1600, so if we think of possibly releasing a tablet app in 2 or 3 years, it seems about right to use a higher resolution.

(01-20-2016 02:10 PM)fhub Wrote: Now a few other questions:
1) should I remove the text 'HP 50g Graphing Calculator' and/or the HP-logo from the picture (and maybe replace it with 'newRPL')?

Yes, please, no references at all to HP or the 50g.

(01-20-2016 02:10 PM)fhub Wrote: 2) how should your newRPL program look?
a) Do you want the original HP50g picture and put your display exactly on the original place?
b) Or would you prefer something like my own HP50 skin (2nd attachment) with the display placed beside the calculator? (that would reduce the vertical size again a bit more, so it would fit on more notebook screens)

I think I'll try using QML scripts to create a flexible user interface. Not the same as KML, this is javascript for UI's. Having said that, I think the user should have the choice of screen at the top, left or right. For desktop applications I prefer screen on the side, but if this eventually gets ported to a phone, top is the correct position.

EDIT: My answer wasn't clear enough: QML scripts allow you to resize images like a browser, so use the high resolution and don't worry about it, it can easily be resized on the fly.

fhub · (This post was last modified: 01-20-2016 05:37 PM by fhub.)

(01-20-2016 03:43 PM)Claudio L. Wrote: 1600 pixels is not that crazy, if you put the screen on the side of the keyboard you'll end up with about 1000 pixels, which is perfect for fullscreen on the most common 1920x1080 resolution.

1920x1080 is 'most common'?
Well, at least here in Austria there are still many notebooks sold with 1280x800 (which is BTW the resolution of my own notebook here, too) or even 1024x768.
So it won't be a good idea to exclude such users with older notebooks from using your newRPL emuator.

Quote:EDIT: My answer wasn't clear enough: QML scripts allow you to resize images like a browser, so use the high resolution and don't worry about it, it can easily be resized on the fly.

Ok, that's good to hear, nevertheless a more horizontal layout (with the LCD display at the side) won't be a bad idea for desktop usage - I'll make one if the layout is fixed.
BTW, what exact size should such an extra LCD display have (in the original large size), so that it would be appropriate for newRPL? (I ask because you've added 2 extra key rows)

Here are the current pictures (large and small) with the HP signs removed (it's too big for an attachment):
http://www9.zippyshare.com/v/mfQaruLr/file.html

Franz

Claudio L. · 01-20-2016, 10:16 PM

(01-20-2016 04:38 PM)fhub Wrote: Ok, that's good to hear, nevertheless a more horizontal layout (with the LCD display at the side) won't be a bad idea for desktop usage - I'll make one if the layout is fixed.
BTW, what exact size should such an extra LCD display have (in the original large size), so that it would be appropriate for newRPL? (I ask because you've added 2 extra key rows)

There's not an easy answer to that question.
The display is still the same 131*80 pixels. The demo currently uses it magnified x4 (each pixel is a 4x4 square). The annunciators are 12 pixels high and the top of the icons is 20 pixels from the
top of the first active pixel on the screen. So the height is 4*80 + 20.
However, some people might prefer x3 magnification depending on their screen resolution. Higher resolution screens might need more magnification. I'd say go with the current 4x, people who need more or less will also have to magnify the keyboard image anyway, so your bitmap shouldn't change.

fhub · 01-21-2016, 12:25 PM

(01-20-2016 10:16 PM)Claudio L. Wrote: There's not an easy answer to that question.
The display is still the same 131*80 pixels. The demo currently uses it magnified x4 (each pixel is a 4x4 square). The annunciators are 12 pixels high and the top of the icons is 20 pixels from the top of the first active pixel on the screen. So the height is 4*80 + 20.

Ok, I've now finished a horizontal layout and I've just used the same size as the LCD screen in your newRPL program.
The attachment is a reduced version (75%) which has the perfect size for my 1280x800 notebook screen - I'll send you a complete skin package in PNG format (vertical/horizontal in 100/75/50%) via email.

If you have any further wishes for these skins, let me know ... Wink

Franz

Claudio L. · 01-21-2016, 12:40 PM

(01-21-2016 12:25 PM)fhub Wrote: If you have any further wishes for these skins, let me know ...

Looks great!
I think it won't be me asking you for more, it will be the community... you'll see.

Francois Lanciault · 01-21-2016, 07:09 PM

(01-21-2016 12:25 PM)fhub Wrote:
(01-20-2016 10:16 PM)Claudio L. Wrote: There's not an easy answer to that question.
The display is still the same 131*80 pixels. The demo currently uses it magnified x4 (each pixel is a 4x4 square). The annunciators are 12 pixels high and the top of the icons is 20 pixels from the top of the first active pixel on the screen. So the height is 4*80 + 20.
Ok, I've now finished a horizontal layout and I've just used the same size as the LCD screen in your newRPL program.
The attachment is a reduced version (75%) which has the perfect size for my 1280x800 notebook screen - I'll send you a complete skin package in PNG format (vertical/horizontal in 100/75/50%) via email.

If you have any further wishes for these skins, let me know ...

Franz

I wonder if I can cut off the screen of my HP-50G and attach it on the side with a hinge like that. I will try tonight... ;-)

fhub · 01-21-2016, 08:00 PM

(01-21-2016 07:09 PM)Francois Lanciault Wrote: I wonder if I can cut off the screen of my HP-50G and attach it on the side with a hinge like that. I will try tonight... ;-)

Do you mean something like my attachment in post #212 in tis thread?

If you need it for the HP50g emulator (emu48.exe), I could upload the complete skin (BMP bitmap + KML script) if you want ...

Franz

Helix · (This post was last modified: 01-22-2016 03:52 PM by Helix.)

Just for information:
I've tried to install the last version of newRPL on my HP50g, and this time I've had a lot of difficulties.

After the traditional update and reset procedure, the screen displayed "exception data abort".
CONT, EXIT, shift WARMSTART and Shift RESET returned to the same screen.
OFF didn't work.
ON-A-F didn't work either.
Reset with a paperclip returned to the same screen.
Removing a battery didn't work, because as soon as the battery was inserted, the calculator still displayed the same screen.

I've tried to install previous versions of newRPL that was saved in my PC, and to my surprise they didn't work either, showing the same problem. Flashing the calculator with the original HP ROM worked perfectly, but flashing again with newRPL returned to the same problem, but with a different screen: "exception : corrupted MMU".

I've found a solution: pressing Shift RESET, and very very quickly pressing ON-A-F. It was quite challenging, but this time I could wipe the memory. Since the calculator seems to work normally with the last version of newRPL.

Claudio L. · 01-22-2016, 04:47 PM

(01-22-2016 03:49 PM)Helix Wrote: Just for information:
I've tried to install the last version of newRPL on my HP50g, and this time I've had a lot of difficulties.

After the traditional update and reset procedure, the screen displayed "exception data abort".
CONT, EXIT, shift WARMSTART and Shift RESET returned to the same screen.
OFF didn't work.
ON-A-F didn't work either.
Reset with a paperclip returned to the same screen.
Removing a battery didn't work, because as soon as the battery was inserted, the calculator still displayed the same screen.

I've tried to install previous versions of newRPL that was saved in my PC, and to my surprise they didn't work either, showing the same problem. Flashing the calculator with the original HP ROM worked perfectly, but flashing again with newRPL returned to the same problem, but with a different screen: "exception : corrupted MMU".

I've found a solution: pressing Shift RESET, and very very quickly pressing ON-A-F. It was quite challenging, but this time I could wipe the memory. Since the calculator seems to work normally with the last version of newRPL.

There was one update a couple updates ago that required full memory wipe, due to a serious low-level reorganization.
But I see your point: those low level exceptions should *always* offer to do a full memory wipe. I'll work on that.
However, next time you see a data abort, please either take a picture or write down the register contents and email it to me.
newRPL has object validity tests upon boot, so it shouldn't crash like that, ever. While crashing on invalid objects used to be normal on the 50g, it is not acceptable in newRPL.
The correct behavior is for the invalid object to be detected and replaced with the number 0 (for lack of better object) before newRPL starts.
The "corrupted MMU" message is a consequence of those thorough tests on boot. The RAM was overwritten by the stock ROM, with enough leftovers for newRPL to detect it was there before, but something wasn't right. That means the safety checks are working fine, but should give you the option of doing a full memory wipe too to correct the problem.

Helix · 01-22-2016, 06:10 PM

Thank you for the explanations. Yes, the ON-A-F procedure should always be accessible.

I've done the full memory wipe every time you advised to do it. The last time, corresponding to the last ROM I tried, was after installing the version of your posts #184 and #185.
Next time, I will take a picture and send it to you.

Francois Lanciault · 01-22-2016, 08:47 PM

(01-22-2016 03:49 PM)Helix Wrote: Just for information:
I've tried to install the last version of newRPL on my HP50g, and this time I've had a lot of difficulties.

After the traditional update and reset procedure, the screen displayed "exception data abort".
CONT, EXIT, shift WARMSTART and Shift RESET returned to the same screen.
OFF didn't work.
ON-A-F didn't work either.
Reset with a paperclip returned to the same screen.
Removing a battery didn't work, because as soon as the battery was inserted, the calculator still displayed the same screen.

I've tried to install previous versions of newRPL that was saved in my PC, and to my surprise they didn't work either, showing the same problem. Flashing the calculator with the original HP ROM worked perfectly, but flashing again with newRPL returned to the same problem, but with a different screen: "exception : corrupted MMU".

I've found a solution: pressing Shift RESET, and very very quickly pressing ON-A-F. It was quite challenging, but this time I could wipe the memory. Since the calculator seems to work normally with the last version of newRPL.

I had the same problem. What solve it for me was to remove all batteries including the memory backup one. I was then offered the option to wipe memory.

I also got another problem (the last 3 updates). After the update and reset (or battery removed) I end up with a blank screen with the exception of the flashing "pulse" indicator and the right shift indicator. The pulse indicator is flashing and the right shift indicator is always on. No keys works no way to turn off. When I reset I end up with the same screen. Same as Helix for re-installing the firmware. I was able to do ON-A-F and ON-A-C and ask for memory wipe/restart/whatever but it would always go back to that strange blank screen with the two indicators. Again removing all batteries seems like the only way to make it work.

François