[HP 39gII] USB product ID?
09-20-2015, 04:47 PM
Post: #1
 matthiaspaul Senior Member Posts: 385 Joined: Jan 2015
[HP 39gII] USB product ID?
Hi,

Recently I submitted updates to the USB ID Repository maintained by Stephen J. Gowdy for all HP calculators utilizing USB ports in order to improve support for them in operating systems and application software off the mainstream, however, I was unable to find out the USB product ID (PID) of the HP 39gII (NW249AA) calculator.

Does someone know this PID or own a HP 39gII (or Windows USB drivers for it), so that we can find out?

Also still missing is the PID of the HP StreamSmart 410 (NW278AA) and possibly that of the Bluetooth modules of the HP Prime Wireless Kit (FOK65AA), assuming they use the USB protocol to communicate with the Prime as well. Anyone?

For completeness, here's a compilation of the IDs I found out so far:

VID 03F0h, PID 0121h:
- hp 39g+ (F2224A)
- HP 39gs (F2223A)
- HP 40gs (F2225A)
- hp 48gII (F2226A) (2007 revision only)
- hp 49g+ (F2228A)
- HP 50g (F2229A, NW240AA)

VID 03F0h, PID 0221h:
- StreamSmart 400 (F2235AA)

VID 03F0h, PID 0441h:
- HP Prime (NW280AA, G8X92AA) (NW280AA does not support USB-OTG unit-to-unit communication, the StreamSmart 410 or the Bluetooth modules)

Greetings,

Matthias

--
"Programs are poems for computers."
09-20-2015, 05:55 PM (This post was last modified: 09-20-2015 05:58 PM by Katie Wasserman.)
Post: #2
 Katie Wasserman Super Moderator Posts: 637 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [HP 39gII] USB product ID?
Here's what I get:

idVendor: 0x03F0 (Hewlett Packard)
idProduct: 0xD507
iManufacturer: 0x01
0x0409: "Hewlett-Packard"
iProduct: 0x02
0x0409: "HP 39gII Calculator"

so,

VID 03F0h, PID D507h

is that what you're looking for?

-katie

09-20-2015, 07:54 PM
Post: #3
 matthiaspaul Senior Member Posts: 385 Joined: Jan 2015
RE: [HP 39gII] USB product ID?
(09-20-2015 05:55 PM)Katie Wasserman Wrote:  VID 03F0h, PID D507h

is that what you're looking for?
Yes, it is. Thank you very much, Katie. :-)

I will report this to Stephen as well (unless you'd want to do it yourself) for the benefit of all.

So, we now have all currently existing USB capable HP calculators covered, just the two Prime accessories are still missing.

Greetings,

Matthias

--
"Programs are poems for computers."
09-20-2015, 09:51 PM
Post: #4
 Katie Wasserman Super Moderator Posts: 637 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [HP 39gII] USB product ID?
(09-20-2015 07:54 PM)matthiaspaul Wrote:
(09-20-2015 05:55 PM)Katie Wasserman Wrote:  VID 03F0h, PID D507h

is that what you're looking for?
Yes, it is. Thank you very much, Katie. :-)

I will report this to Stephen as well (unless you'd want to do it yourself) for the benefit of all.

Please do, there's no reason to me to get into the middle of this.

-katie

09-20-2015, 11:31 PM
Post: #5
 matthiaspaul Senior Member Posts: 385 Joined: Jan 2015
RE: [HP 39gII] USB product ID?
(09-20-2015 09:51 PM)Katie Wasserman Wrote:  Please do, there's no reason to me to get into the middle of this.
Okay, done that.

Greetings,

Matthias

--
"Programs are poems for computers."
09-21-2015, 10:52 PM
Post: #6
 BruceH Senior Member Posts: 401 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [HP 39gII] USB product ID?
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(09-20-2015 07:54 PM)matthiaspaul Wrote:  So, we now have all currently existing USB capable HP calculators covered, just the two Prime accessories are still missing.

Except that I have an early Prime (serial number 4CY3420xxx) which my Mac reports as USB Product ID 0x1541.

Also, there are two versions of the StreamSmart 410. The early model is distinguished by the non-standard serial connector needed to connect to an HP39GS. The later one connects to the Prime via micro-USB.

I have an early StreamSmart and the Mac reports its USB connection as:
Code:
SS410:   Product ID:             0x2000   Vendor ID:              0x1f0c   Version:                0.00   Serial Number:          V1.0   Speed:                  Up to 12 Mb/sec   Manufacturer:           CMX Systems   Location ID:            0x04100000 / 2   Current Available (mA): 500   Current Required (mA):  0
09-22-2015, 06:03 AM
Post: #7
 debrouxl Member Posts: 258 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [HP 39gII] USB product ID?
Yup, PID 0x1541 has appeared relatively recently for the Prime. libhpcalcs only looked (and still looks, pending pull requests) only for PID 0x0451.
09-22-2015, 11:16 AM (This post was last modified: 09-22-2015 03:30 PM by matthiaspaul.)
Post: #8
 matthiaspaul Senior Member Posts: 385 Joined: Jan 2015
RE: [HP 39gII] USB product ID?
(09-21-2015 10:52 PM)BruceH Wrote:  Except that I have an early Prime (serial number 4CY3420xxx) which my Mac reports as USB Product ID 0x1541.
Very interesting! Is this a production unit or still some kind of prototype? Has it a MPN of NW280AA or something else? Do you still know the original firmware version?

Quote:Also, there are two versions of the StreamSmart 410. The early model is distinguished by the non-standard serial connector needed to connect to an HP39GS. The later one connects to the Prime via micro-USB.
This is very interesting as well. Again, is your device a production unit or a prototype?

I knew that there was a StreamSmart 400 (F2235AA) around 2008 and that there is a StreamSmart 410 (NW278AA) since about 2012, but I wasn't aware of the fact that there are two variants of the latter.

From what I was able to find out so far, the SS400 was designed by HP and is supposed to be compatible with the 39gs (with unknown firmware), 40gs (with unknown firmware) and 50g (with firmware 2.15 only), whereas the SS410 was designed by some Fourier contractor and is (or was at some point in time) supposed to be compatible with the HP 39gs (with unknown firmware), 40gs (with unknown firmware), 39gII (with firmware 1.3?), 50g (with firmware 2.16 only) and Prime (with firmware 6031 and higher). There's a lot of misleading or contradictory information floating around about these devices, and I have yet to see a user clearly stating that s/he was able to use one of them successfully on anything but a Prime. (This is what kept me from buying one for use with a 50g so far.)

Greetings,

Matthias

--
"Programs are poems for computers."
09-22-2015, 11:47 AM
Post: #9
 matthiaspaul Senior Member Posts: 385 Joined: Jan 2015
RE: [HP 39gII] USB product ID?
(09-20-2015 07:54 PM)matthiaspaul Wrote:  So, we now have all currently existing USB capable HP calculators covered, just the two Prime accessories are still missing.
I just realized there are two more, sort of:

Does anyone know the USB IDs of those?

Greetings,

Matthias

--
"Programs are poems for computers."
09-22-2015, 12:00 PM
Post: #10
 matthiaspaul Senior Member Posts: 385 Joined: Jan 2015
RE: [HP 39gII] USB product ID?
(09-20-2015 04:47 PM)matthiaspaul Wrote:  Also still missing is the PID of the HP StreamSmart 410 (NW278AA) and possibly that of the Bluetooth modules of the HP Prime Wireless Kit (FOK65AA), assuming they use the USB protocol to communicate with the Prime as well. Anyone?
This post confirms that the Bluetooth modules actually use the USB protocol to talk to the Prime:

(Since many BT modules just have a "TTL" serial interface, it would have been possible that the Prime would have reused the port pins connected to the USB data lines to run a simple UART-based serial protocol when talking to those modules rather than using the USB protocol for it. Cyrille's post rules this possibility out.)

Greetings,

Matthias

--
"Programs are poems for computers."
09-22-2015, 01:20 PM (This post was last modified: 09-22-2015 01:28 PM by Tim Wessman.)
Post: #11
 Tim Wessman Senior Member Posts: 2,282 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [HP 39gII] USB product ID?
(09-22-2015 12:00 PM)matthiaspaul Wrote:  This post confirms that the Bluetooth modules actually use the USB protocol to talk to the Prime:

Not bluetooth. The wireless antenna/dongle use a nordic chip in the ~2.4ghz range. The chip presents itself to as an hid usb 1.1 device. Communication to the dongle is through a 64 byte packet. The RF layer is basically serial between the chips, but that is all handled by the silicon (error correction, retry, etc). Those have a maximum size of 32 bytes, so messages get assembled/disassembled during transmission.

u32 const vidpid[] = { 0x1F0C2000, 0x03f00441, 0x03f01541, 0x03f00741, 0x19150101 }; // Streamer, Prime, NewPrime, RF Antennae, Dongle Updater

First is the current ss410, then a prime with the old pid, then a prime with the new pid (we had to change this as it caused problems when switching from hid to mass storage on usb 3.0 for updating - windows didn't recognize as a new device because the vid/pid didn't change even through the device profile did), then the antenna/dongle, then an updater mode for the dongle (not ever used yet)

TW

Although I work for HP, the views and opinions I post here are my own.
09-22-2015, 04:12 PM
Post: #12
 matthiaspaul Senior Member Posts: 385 Joined: Jan 2015
RE: [HP 39gII] USB product ID?
(09-22-2015 01:20 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote:  The wireless antenna/dongle use a nordic chip in the ~2.4ghz range.
Nice, I have some familiarity with it. ;-)
Quote:u32 const vidpid[] = { 0x1F0C2000, 0x03f00441, 0x03f01541, 0x03f00741, 0x19150101 }; // Streamer, Prime, NewPrime, RF Antennae, Dongle Updater

First is the current ss410
Since I just learned there are two versions of the SS410, can you also provide the IDs of the older one (even if it's not supported by the Prime)?

Quote:then a prime with the old pid, then a prime with the new pid (we had to change this as it caused problems when switching from hid to mass storage on usb 3.0 for updating - windows didn't recognize as a new device because the vid/pid didn't change even through the device profile did),
I see. Just to rule out any misinterpretation, I take "NewPrime" to mean "new PID used by new firmware" (since when?), or is this also bound on the hardware platform underneath (as in: "old Primes" are NW280AA (revision A) units and new Primes are G8X92AA (revision C) units or something like this)?
If I understood you correctly, the new PID 1541h is used only when using the mass storage profile, but the Primes continue to use the old PID 0441h in HID mode? (Or do they now use PID 1541h in all modes, and using this rather than the old ID alone keeps mode switching problems from not occuring under Windows for some reason?)

Greetings,

Matthias

--
"Programs are poems for computers."
09-28-2015, 04:58 PM (This post was last modified: 09-28-2015 04:59 PM by BruceH.)
Post: #13
 BruceH Senior Member Posts: 401 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [HP 39gII] USB product ID?
(09-22-2015 11:16 AM)matthiaspaul Wrote:
(09-21-2015 10:52 PM)BruceH Wrote:  Except that I have an early Prime (serial number 4CY3420xxx) which my Mac reports as USB Product ID 0x1541.
Very interesting! Is this a production unit or still some kind of prototype? Has it a MPN of NW280AA or something else? Do you still know the original firmware version?

No, afraid not. I've upgraded the firmware as they've been released and I don't have a record of what it originally was.

Quote:
Quote:Also, there are two versions of the StreamSmart 410. The early model is distinguished by the non-standard serial connector needed to connect to an HP39GS. The later one connects to the Prime via micro-USB.
This is very interesting as well. Again, is your device a production unit or a prototype?

I knew that there was a StreamSmart 400 (F2235AA) around 2008 and that there is a StreamSmart 410 (NW278AA) since about 2012, but I wasn't aware of the fact that there are two variants of the latter.

It comes in a case complete with probes, cables etc and an HP39gs, that is branded Fourier, so I think it is a kit that they sold for schools.

Quote:From what I was able to find out so far, the SS400 was designed by HP and is supposed to be compatible with the 39gs (with unknown firmware), 40gs (with unknown firmware) and 50g (with firmware 2.15 only), whereas the SS410 was designed by some Fourier contractor and is (or was at some point in time) supposed to be compatible with the HP 39gs (with unknown firmware), 40gs (with unknown firmware), 39gII (with firmware 1.3?), 50g (with firmware 2.16 only) and Prime (with firmware 6031 and higher). There's a lot of misleading or contradictory information floating around about these devices, and I have yet to see a user clearly stating that s/he was able to use one of them successfully on anything but a Prime. (This is what kept me from buying one for use with a 50g so far.)

Greetings,

Matthias
09-29-2015, 02:14 PM
Post: #14
 Tim Wessman Senior Member Posts: 2,282 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: [HP 39gII] USB product ID?
(09-22-2015 04:12 PM)matthiaspaul Wrote:  I see. Just to rule out any misinterpretation, I take "NewPrime" to mean "new PID used by new firmware" (since when?)

It isn't tied to hardware but just software revision. The change was also for the HID mode and not the SCSI mass storage updater thing. That would have happened with the current public release.

The basic reason was that windows was not recognizing there had been a change even though the underlying protocol specified had changed and modified with certain usb3 drivers when the device attempted to reboot and come up in update mode. On usb2 it did not have that issue. Thus the updater would not trigger the win usb stack to change drivers.

TW

Although I work for HP, the views and opinions I post here are my own.
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