Poll: Landscape or Portrait?

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(03-04-2016 02:21 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  

(03-04-2016 01:58 AM)Jlouis Wrote:  That's why free42 is so fantastic.

It changes the 42s from portrait to landscape, just turn you smartphone or tablet.

Yes, I've had Free42 on my phone for years, so I'm used to the landscape version of this one. The touch-based interface is so different from using real keys, that I find I can use both landscape and portrait almost equally.

But having never seen a portrait 12C, it's hard to imagine how it feels.

So you don't have one of these, Bob?
And clamshell too!

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(03-04-2016 02:04 AM)Jlouis Wrote:  

C'mon landscapers, let's not give up so soon, vote for landscape!

They are beaten us with no mercy!!!!

[striegel]

(03-04-2016 02:14 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  

(03-04-2016 01:55 AM)striegel Wrote:  Sorry, I should have included screen captures of the program editor too.

Thanks for posting these Alan - and you're quite right, MUCH more readable.

So I presume these programs are simulating the 12C with new code, rather than emulating one and running the original ROM code? Have you tried some of the problems in the (original) 12C manual to see if the results match?

Wish there was an Android version to check out...

Thanks!

Quite right: these do not use any HP ROM (according to the developer). Running programs produce the same results as a real HP-12C. I've tested the 'Program to Structure Gross Pretax Lease Payments' from page 54 of the HP Leasing Applications Handbook and it matches completely.

What would be a really demanding test case?

[rprosperi]

(03-04-2016 07:43 AM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  So you don't have one of these, Bob?

No, I've held off buying the cheap 12C clones - other than for reasons of being complete (from a collecting viewpoint) I've seen no reason to, but you're right this would be a way to explore a Portrait 12C.

Other than it's cheapness/feel, do you really prefer this over a real 12C?

[rprosperi]

(03-04-2016 12:02 PM)striegel Wrote:  Quite right: these do not use any HP ROM (according to the developer). Running programs produce the same results as a real HP-12C. I've tested the 'Program to Structure Gross Pretax Lease Payments' from page 54 of the HP Leasing Applications Handbook and it matches completely.

What would be a really demanding test case?

For built-in functions, I believe solving for Interest (which is usually iterative) would involve the most internal calculations and thus reveal the propagation of rounding errors (errors meaning compared to a real 12C - it's possible this version is actually more accurate than a native 12C).

You could also build and run some simple programs that calculate in a large loop and compare with a real 12C. Also the ASIN(ACOS(ATAN(TAN(... test could reveal inaccuracies as well.

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(03-04-2016 03:59 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Other than it's cheapness/feel, do you really prefer this over a real 12C?

I don't even remember if I ever opened the blister pack... But I bet I would prefer a true 12C.

That picture's not mine.

[striegel]

(03-04-2016 04:05 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  ... compare with a real 12C. Also the ASIN(ACOS(ATAN(TAN(... test could reveal inaccuracies as well.

But since the HP-12C has no native scientific functions, this would make use of the program, "HP-12C Tried & Tricky Trigonometrics" by Valentin Albillo, right? Sounds like a fun exercise for the weekend.

Alan

[rprosperi]

(03-04-2016 08:02 PM)striegel Wrote:  

(03-04-2016 04:05 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  ... compare with a real 12C. Also the ASIN(ACOS(ATAN(TAN(... test could reveal inaccuracies as well.

But since the HP-12C has no native scientific functions, this would make use of the program, "HP-12C Tried & Tricky Trigonometrics" by Valentin Albillo, right? Sounds like a fun exercise for the weekend.

Alan

Ahem... Yes, why that is exactly what I meant...

No, in truth I clearly just typed that without any thinking, however doing this probably would reveal what you are looking for as this would exercise even more of the inner math modules than simple user functions, as one would use if the machine even had them.

The results should be revealing - and would be surprising to me if results were the same as a native 12C.

After doing this testing, you will also be much more familiar with the new keyboard layout!

[anetzer]

(03-03-2016 06:38 AM)Geoff Quickfall Wrote:  Really, portrait unless it's landscape.

Makes me wonder whether we will ever see a certain book and whether it will cover the special problems in opening and refurbishing the diagonal ones...?

Sorry, had to ask.

a.

[anetzer]

(03-04-2016 02:04 AM)Jlouis Wrote:  C'mon landscapers,

I have to admit one thing here:

I would sympathize with landscape, if the enter key would not have been rotated into the vertical in the relevant models.

It makes using the voyagers rather awkward if one has been socialized on a portrait model, no matter which.

Nota bene. I do not ask for a further choice along the lines of "Landscape but with horizontal 'Enter' key"...

[Dave Frederickson]

Don't like square, maybe round is more your thing, but the triangle is interesting. Behold the best of both worlds!



Too bad it's not RPN.

Update:

[Dave Frederickson]

(03-04-2016 11:23 PM)Geir Isene Wrote:  Ask a thousand USD. I would buy it!

On Google Play for the Moto 360. The $700 savings can be sent to my PayPal account.

[JimP]

Portrait on one side, landscape on the other. A dual aspect calculator with display and buttons on both sides. Wait, that's silly....

Either is fine as long as one can actually see the display without a magnifying glass (ah, TI?)

[Jlouis]

(03-04-2016 11:57 PM)JimP Wrote:  Either is fine as long as one can actually see the display without a magnifying glass (ah, TI?)

Indeed. I have the TI 89 titaneum and the TI Nspire CX. Both have displays with fonts that can be mesured in the Planck scale.

IMHO, the perfect font size stay with the HP48s/g series, (without metakernel), although it is a portrait calculator.

JL

[Marcio]

(03-05-2016 12:21 AM)Jlouis Wrote:  IMHO, the perfect font size stay with the HP48s/g series, (without metakernel), although it is a portrait calculator.

Nah. Nothing beats the Voyagers of old. IMO.

[Jlouis]

(03-05-2016 12:28 AM)Marcio Wrote:  

(03-05-2016 12:21 AM)Jlouis Wrote:  IMHO, the perfect font size stay with the HP48s/g series, (without metakernel), although it is a portrait calculator.

Nah. Nothing beats the Voyagers of old. IMO.

Ok, but I think they are more or less the same size

[Dave Britten]

Landscape is very nice for two-handed use on a desktop (as I've been discovering with my new DM-41L), but I've never cared for it for handheld use (like with the 12C I keep in my bill basket). So if I had to pick one or the other, I'd go with portrait for versatility, but if the only concern is desktop use, I think landscape has a slight edge.

[Dwight Sturrock]

I like the HP landscape models the way they are, 71, 15, 12, etc. and the portrait, 50, 42, etc the way they are. Not sure about the SwissMicros reordering of portrait keyboards as landscape. Either way, I'll probably buy a couple of 42L's no matter which format they have.

[Jlouis]

(03-05-2016 01:53 AM)Dave Britten Wrote:  Landscape is very nice for two-handed use on a desktop (as I've been discovering with my new DM-41L), but I've never cared for it for handheld use (like with the 12C I keep in my bill basket). So if I had to pick one or the other, I'd go with portrait for versatility, but if the only concern is desktop use, I think landscape has a slight edge.

Dave, as a handheld, just use a landscape calculator like the whole world use a smartphone or tablet for typing: with the two thumbs. You get all versatility that you may want with a landscape.

Have a nice weekend for you all

JL

[Jlouis]

(03-05-2016 02:01 AM)Dwight Sturrock Wrote:  I like the HP landscape models the way they are, 71, 15, 12, etc. and the portrait, 50, 42, etc the way they are. Not sure about the SwissMicros reordering of portrait keyboards as landscape. Either way, I'll probably buy a couple of 42L's no matter which format they have.

1+

By the way, summer is ending, I want my landscape DM42L!!!!

(Don't tell me that I live in the south hemisphere, I don't care)