43s status

[Manolo Sobrino]

(04-14-2014 12:40 PM)sa-penguin Wrote:  (...) there's the secondary function labels.
Flourescent yellow would be easier to source as a Revell paint 32312, for example.

(Oh no, more yellow madness...) Fluorescent yellow is a nice colour if you lose your calc on the road, at night .

Do an experiment, print a layout in B/W, then apply fluorescent yellow marker to the secondary legends, look aside, then go back to it, you won't see the white primary legends at once (that's why they make fluorescent markers.)

Another experiment, print another layout, now full colour with orange on the secondary keys. Measure the time it takes to read all legends in both cases.

Third experiment, look for calculator pictures or, if you're a collector, go fetch some (except the 37E ) , now put your thumb on the golden key, look aside again and go back to the calc, are legends just yellow now?

(I couldn't resist )

[sa-penguin]

They make assorted greys as well. Or camouflage green., sky blue, etc.
I picked yellow because I remember my old 41C, with a yellow shift key, quite fondly.

Custom colours are another way of making each calculator unique. The technique is what counts.

But hey - we're all just whistling in the wind, passing time in gossip until the actual hardware arrives.

[orcinus]

Out of curiosity...

Has anyone tried contacting these guys:
http://keycapsdirect.com/index.php

The mechanical keyboard enthusiast community tends to use them a lot to obtain custom keycaps (both double-shot and sublimation died, AFAIK). Now, granted, the orders typically go out as group buys of a few hundred people, and the key profiles are fixed, but it might be worth checking if they've got moulds for something suitable for the 43s.

[colinh]

Well, they do specifically invite requests for quotes. And they're obviously used to dealing with weird people (keyboard pimpers) ... :-)

[walter b]

Thanks for the link. Interesting niche. I didn't know those folks before. It's the realm of our hardware department though and I'm confident they scanned the market.

As you wrote (and they mention here), there's a significant offset in their prices which might kick them out regarding our (by experience so far) very small volumes. Nevertheless, quite an interesting contact. Thanks again.

d:-)

[Tugdual]

(04-29-2014 04:52 AM)walter b Wrote:  Thanks for the link. Interesting niche. I didn't know those folks before. It's the realm of our hardware department though and I'm confident they scanned the market.

As you wrote (and they mention here), there's a significant offset in their prices which might kick them out regarding our (by experience so far) very small volumes. Nevertheless, quite an interesting contact. Thanks again.

d:-)

Did you guys ever considered going Kick starter and size the whole project cost with a first production volume in mind?

[jebem]

Goog morning (or good night) to all,
Just putting this thread in register X hoping to see the day X news!
Have a nice day

[Martin Hepperle]

Dear All,

allow me to throw some ideas into the pond to see whether they float...

While I am sure that you have discussed already zillions of possibilities I would like to share some ideas for an "XP 43S pocket calculator and tinkering assistant". Maybe some of them can be picked up and integrated easily without much extra effort. The main idea is extending the basic calculator to something more useful and versatile without making it bulky and expensive.

Keyboard

• two layers with labels in between instead of double shot injection molding:
• 0.5-1.0 mm clear Plexiglas or Lexan planar face plate with laser cut holes for keys
• top key layer: 0.5mm vacuum formed clear Plexiglas or Lexan, laser-cut with main hinges at bottom of keys left standing (durability?)
• bottom key layer: 0.5mm vacuum formed black Plexiglas with thinner hinges at bottom and labels by stickers or "tampon printing"
• low profile micro click switches as SMD parts soldered to main board
• the clear top layer protects the key labels and serves as the main hinge.
  Laser cutting is affordable, but I am not sure whether they can handle such thin Plexiglas or Lexan.
  

I saw that there seems to be a patent by C. de B. covering this idea, but for a hobby DIY product one could implement this idea without problems.

Note: not everything of the following must be directly available in the first cast of the operating system, but the hardware should be available to add such extensions to the software later and ther software should be prepared not to block future functionality.

Mechanical Design
Provide means to attach external extension boxes to the case, e.g. by screws in prepared screw holes or hooks.
Extension modules offer the possibility for the user to compose pice by piece what he needs.
Extensibility was a major advantage of the HP-41 and the Hp-48 systems.
On the other hand these systems, especially the HP 48, family suffered somewhat from the volume provided to install internal extensions.
The basic machine should be small and handy and not provide empty space, slots etc. for extensions.
Extensions could be part of a sliding cover, which could be easily replaced.
E.g. on the HP 20b and 30b the rear cover could be replaced by a double height cover with extension modules inside.
All mechanical and electrical connectors would be under this cover.
This would be a similar concept like the shields stacked onto an Arduino board, only more elegant and sleek.

Interfaces

• Color display with (software) switchable backlight, capable of Unicode text as well as graphics output
• keyboard
• programmable low current consumption configurations (clock speed, display off), to allow for long term tasks (alarms, in situ measurements)
• internal LiPo battery of high capacity (4+ hrs. run time at full speed)
• serial interface instead of direct USB, can be used transparently with USB-serial cable for data exchange with PC but also for general serial connections like GPS etc.
  A WP 34S with built in USB board is fine, but I cannot connect serial devices like many GPS boards to it.
  Keeping the serial-USB converter as an external not built-in component (or cable) like on the HP 48/49 provides more flexibility but the same level of comfort because the user does not see a difference whether the USB-serial converter is in the cable or in the computer.
• optional
  • serial Bluetooth link instead of serial (if power consumption is not too high)
  • touch screen for some functions (like HP Prime)
  • charging via induction loop instead of wires?
    
• additional interfaces for tinkering (see popularity of Arduino, Raspberry). This might attract more potential customers than the few die-hard calculator fans
  • 1 A/D and 1 D/A interfaces for direct measurements, resolution at least 10 bit (plus assorted commands)
  • 4-8 digital I/O pins for simple control tasks and for I2C, TWI and SPI communication for easy interfacing with sensors (plus assorted commands for I2C, SPI, TWI)
  • of course GND pin(s)
  • infra-red for remote control and printing (is IrDA obsolete? I would prefer Bluetooth or 2.4 GHz or 433 MHz link, but low power consumption)
  • pins for external power supply to calculator for long term operation
  • optional: pins to supply (low) power from calculator to external devices (e.g. 3.3V, 5V) for external sensors (e.g. thermometer, accelerometer)
  • all these using a standard connector, avoid any special connectors.
    

Martin

[Claudio L.]

Here are some additional suggestions, see if you can include them too:

* Cortex A15 processor
* 8 GBytes of RAM
* SSD drive for storage
* GPS Navigation
* Blu-Ray player
* 7.1 Surround sound
* 19" alloy wheels

Would be nice-to-have (only if you have enough space in the case):
* Blind-spot monitoring system.

PS: Don't mean to offend anybody, I just found amusing the overwhelming number of requests/ideas (I'm sure some of them are perfectly reasonable).

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(06-12-2014 09:37 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  Here are some additional suggestions, see if you can include them too:

* Cortex A15 processor
* 8 GBytes of RAM
* SSD drive for storage
* GPS Navigation
* Blu-Ray player
* 7.1 Surround sound
* 19" alloy wheels

Would be nice-to-have (only if you have enough space in the case):
* Blind-spot monitoring system.

PS: Don't mean to offend anybody, I just found amusing the overwhelming number of requests/ideas (I'm sure some of them are perfectly reasonable).

Won't even touch it with a pole if it doesn't include a Lightsaber.

[brouhaha]

(06-12-2014 09:37 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  * Cortex A15 processor

What? One of those wimpy 32-bit processors? It should have a Cortex-A57, but only because the 128-bit general purpose processors aren't available yet.

[walter b]

(06-13-2014 04:28 AM)brouhaha Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 09:37 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  * Cortex A15 processor

What? One of those wimpy 32-bit processors? It should have a Cortex-A57, but only because the 128-bit general purpose processors aren't available yet.

Seriously, how (far) are you?

d:-?

[Didier Lachieze]

(06-13-2014 04:28 AM)brouhaha Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 09:37 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  * Cortex A15 processor

What? One of those wimpy 32-bit processors? It should have a Cortex-A57, but only because the 128-bit general purpose processors aren't available yet.

Let's look for simplicity, "Zen and the Art of Calculator Design": A 1-bit processor with a single key and a single RED LED !

This should help driving teamwork in the classroom: 32 students combining their single-bit calculators into a 32-bit calculating cluster.

[Martin Hepperle]

(06-12-2014 09:37 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  Here are some additional suggestions, see if you can include them too:

* Cortex A15 processor
* 8 GBytes of RAM
* SSD drive for storage
* GPS Navigation
* Blu-Ray player
* 7.1 Surround sound
* 19" alloy wheels

Would be nice-to-have (only if you have enough space in the case):
* Blind-spot monitoring system.

PS: Don't mean to offend anybody, I just found amusing the overwhelming number of requests/ideas (I'm sure some of them are perfectly reasonable).

Claudio, you did not offend anybody, just me. You might not have noticed that most of my ideas are already available, even in the HP 20/30 hardware (like I2C,TWI, A/D, D/A, digital I/O etc.), but unfortunately not easily accessible due to a missing connector and the missing software support. With minimum effort and almost zero space one could add a lot of features which would make such a device more interesting for a larger group of people without increasing the dimensions or weight of the device. I think the basic mechanical design of the HP20/30 shows an excellent example with the sliding back, which could be exploited in a similar way by a new device.

Another thing, I forgot to mention: an SD-card slot would of course be very useful (see the success of the HP-48 and HP-41 family) - I do not need an additional SSD when I have 8-16GB FLASH memory.

Except for the 19" alloy wheels I agree also with your suggestions - I'd prefer 17" wheels because of the better acceleration when running recursive functions.

As I had written, I would prefer most extra devices as external add-on options so that I do not have to buy the GPS as I already have one (on the other hand it's indeed just another 10$, so its more a question of volume and power consumption). Same goes for your video and sound equipment - I would prefer a silent device possibly with basic sound generation (BEEP) and you can get the sliding boombox back with the associated BLASTURNAIBOR command - as you like.

[Claudio L.]

(06-13-2014 12:33 PM)Martin Hepperle Wrote:  Claudio, you did not offend anybody, just me. You might not have noticed that most of my ideas are already available, even in the HP 20/30 hardware (like I2C,TWI, A/D, D/A, digital I/O etc.), but unfortunately not easily accessible due to a missing connector and the missing software support. With minimum effort and almost zero space one could add a lot of features which would make such a device more interesting for a larger group of people without increasing the dimensions or weight of the device. I think the basic mechanical design of the HP20/30 shows an excellent example with the sliding back, which could be exploited in a similar way by a new device.

Another thing, I forgot to mention: an SD-card slot would of course be very useful (see the success of the HP-48 and HP-41 family) - I do not need an additional SSD when I have 8-16GB FLASH memory.

Except for the 19" alloy wheels I agree also with your suggestions - I'd prefer 17" wheels because of the better acceleration when running recursive functions.

As I had written, I would prefer most extra devices as external add-on options so that I do not have to buy the GPS as I already have one (on the other hand it's indeed just another 10$, so its more a question of volume and power consumption). Same goes for your video and sound equipment - I would prefer a silent device possibly with basic sound generation (BEEP) and you can get the sliding boombox back with the associated BLASTURNAIBOR command - as you like.

While many of your suggestions are I/O related and come already with the SoC, they would require a PCB designed to expose the I/O pins to the (additional) connector, some extra components, and a complete software stack to drive them, with an API to expose to the user, so you need USB stack, Bluetooth stack, SDMMC, GPIO, serial and I2C APIs. I'm not sure I can agree on the "with minimum effort" part.
Wouldn't you be better served with a device designed to do that? (Raspberry Pi, Beagleboard, etc) They already have a lot of I/O exposed and the software stacks ready to use. The cost of a R.Pi is about the same range as the calculators we are talking about.

[bhtooefr]

(06-13-2014 06:30 AM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:  A 1-bit processor

Hey, a bit-serial architecture worked for everything up through the 41s and the Nut-based Voyagers...

[Claudio L.]

(06-13-2014 04:28 AM)brouhaha Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 09:37 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  * Cortex A15 processor

What? One of those wimpy 32-bit processors? It should have a Cortex-A57, but only because the 128-bit general purpose processors aren't available yet.

Have you decided yet what processor to use? or at least processor family?

[anetzer]

(06-13-2014 03:59 PM)bhtooefr Wrote:  a bit-serial architecture worked for everything up through the 41s and the Nut-based Voyagers...

... and the Hp-71B uses a data path of 4-bit "nibbles" (cute, innit?). It can address more than a meganibble (512k)!

Back to business:

True, the list that Martin has compiled is quite enthusiastic, but I do indeed like one of the points he is making:

If the system bus could be accessed through a latch at the bottom and appropriate fast points where provided in the casing, later-on aftermarket piggy-bottom extensions might be developed. It is just about leaving room to breathe in the hardware design. Martin himself seems to see that the firmware would have to evolve for such expansions to be practical.

It is a given that the HP-41 was somewhat hampered by its hangar-sized module bays, but the mere possibility of doubling up the bottom of a calc wouldn't fatten the base model...

Just my 2 Eurocents...

a.

p.s.

(06-13-2014 05:21 AM)walter b Wrote:  Seriously, how (far) are you?

+1!

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(06-13-2014 09:47 PM)anetzer Wrote:  It is a given that the HP-41 was somewhat hampered by it's hangar-sized module bays, but the mere possibility of doubling up the bottom of a calc wouldn't fatten the base model...

Hampered?
Never looked at it this way.

[anetzer]

(06-13-2014 09:55 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  Hampered?
Never looked at it this way.

Not in its day, but I guess Walter would ostracize a 43S with module bays as supercarrier class...