HP 50G vs. HP Prime

[Eddie W. Shore]

HP 50G vs. HP Prime: Which one wins in a comparison smack down?

http://edspi31415.blogspot.com/2016/06/h...prime.html

[Vtile]

You did forget a fast swap energy source for 50g.. That were one of the reasons I only had 3 models to choose from when looking a new calculator.

Prime: Rechargeable Battery and 50g: Rechargeable Batteries (4 pieces)


Backlit screen would be a true pro for Prime.

All in all 50g draws longer straw.. I like Prime in many ways, but now after I have accustomed to 50g I can not ever change something as cumbersome to program as the Prime is, since lets face it UserRPL (or RPN for those who are used to it) is just too easy, fast (programming) and productive way of program "pocket sketch pad" and interact with the unlimited pad (stack). Unfortunately the system is getting oldish, with its connectivity and some key filesharing abilities which is shame. Hopefully the discontinuation were just rumour, since 50g is (or would be the best) a great machine, with some modernisation (like ARM based OS), connectivity updates, overlay holder build in, bigger flash chip (to just make it infinite) and some modest miniaturising for those who arent restricted to exam regulations. It still is more a calculator where Prime is flirting with the "learning assistant" field (which ofcourse is where the bigger business are).

I like your blog btw.. I found one Prime program and with my 50g variant in form a "doesn't prove anything" style example.

Code:

 HP Prime Program:  SIMPRULE
EXPORT SIMPRULE()
BEGIN
// EWS 2016-06-05
HAngle:=0; // Radians
LOCAL f;
INPUT({{f,[8]},A,B,N},
"Simpson Rule",
{"f(X)=","Low:","High:",
"Intervals (Even):"});
H:=(B-A)/N;
X:=A; T:=EVAL(f);
X:=B; T:=EVAL(f)+T;
FOR I FROM 1 TO N-1 DO
X:=A+I*H;
IF FP(I/2)==0 THEN
T:=2*EVAL(f)+T;
ELSE
T:=4*EVAL(f)+T;
END;
END;
T:=T*H/3;
RETURN T;
END;

One variation I cooked up a few months ago for 50g with UserRPL, based on my old math book (one variation of the many "simpson rules" equations floating around), so it is not optimised in any way.
:
This separate program calculates the x values, and put them stack in the order that is suitable for the next part. Your example program for Prime (NOTE: For a random reader, this below implementation gives totally wrong value for integral in small number of n for some functions. I haven't searched the reason (bug on code or in math formula). )
Call (in ALG for convenience) SRval(equation,low,high)

Code:

<< 0 /-> EQU a b n k
  << A B - N / 'K' STO a b
        FOR Y Y 'X' STO
        EQU EVAL k
        STEP k
 >> 'X' PURGE
"LAST = X2-X1" MSGBOX
>>

The actual simpson rule implementation.
Call: press of the softkey after SRval

Code:

<<DEPTH 1 - 1 /-> H N T
<< DUP MIROR 
2 N  START
   IF 'T==1'
   THEN SWAP 4 * + 0 'T' STO
   ELSE 2 * + 1 'T' STO
   END
  NEXT
"Simpson says.." MSGBOX
  SWAP - H 3 / * >>
>>

MIROR command is subprogram to mirror stack, basicly just: << DEPTH ->LIST REVLIST LIST-> DROP >> this could have been avoided naturally by calculating from "right" to "left".

The last one might actually be handy at some point for handwritten data, the first one is pretty useless outside testing purposes, since the internal integrator is good enough for my modest needs.

Like said proves nothing. My code is freedomain.

edit. some typos and brainjelly logic on text.

[Arno K]

I would like some kind of hybrid of both, that is prime hardware and connectivity combined with a full implementation of RPN. I would then even pay 200 or more euros for that as I only bought the Prime because of it being able to do RPN and without reading this forums before (what a disappointment when I switched to RPN...) but at work my pupils usually use some Casios with algebraic input, so I had no problem in getting used to it.
The prime looks sexy and works flawlessly, the keys could be better readable (I always have some lamp at my desk, so that doesn't matter), the 49g+/50g family was a lot easier to handle, after one has managed the (very steep) learning curve, I really like it but time goes by and so I would say Prime is better with its new facilities.
Maybe, perhaps, some day we will get that combination (probably Swiss made)
Arno

[Thomas Radtke]

(06-18-2016 07:18 PM)Vtile Wrote:  [...] 50g is [...] a great machine, with some modernisation (like ARM based OS) [...]

Hope I'm not mistaken here: Like the 49G+ before, it doesn't run RPL natively but just a Saturn emulator.

[Vtile]

(06-19-2016 06:29 AM)Thomas Radtke Wrote:  

(06-18-2016 07:18 PM)Vtile Wrote:  [...] 50g is [...] a great machine, with some modernisation (like ARM based OS) [...]

Hope I'm not mistaken here: Like the 49G+ before, it doesn't run RPL natively but just a Saturn emulator.

That is true, it does emulate 6MHz Saturn system in 75Mhz ARM920T with ARMv4T architecture, which makes pretty much a same speed that original 2..4MHz Saturn (48s..49g?) (What I have been reading),. In that part I feel BStted as local importer sells them as 75MHz machines, which is only partially true (since you have "protoboard" with 75Mhz and math system in 2..4Mhz). I wish I had better skills on C so I could help Claudio with the newRPL project which is building ARM based RPL OS to 50g from scratch.

Edit: corrected the MHz number of old saturn systems.

[RPL Calcs]

Cheers,

50G vs Prime

In 50G, it can be attributed greater number of functions to user keyboard (up to 11 functions).
In the Prime think are just 3.
A pro more to 50g.

Normal FUNCTION
[LS]+[FUNCTION]
[RS]+[FUNCTION]
[Alpha]+[FUNCTION]
[Alpha]+[LS]+[FUNCTION]
[Alpha]+[RS]+[FUNCTION]

[LS]&[FUNCTION]
[RS]&[FUNCTION]
[Alpha]&[FUNCTION]
[Alpha]+[LS]&[FUNCTION]
[Alpha]+[RS]&[FUNCTION]

[LS] - Left-Shift
[RS] - Right-Shift
& - It indicates that the keys are pressed simultaneously


Regarding the batteries's lifespan ....
The prime the battery can be replaced? What kind is it?
A pro more to 50g. And a pro more also for the HP 35A (1972)


PROCESSORS:
according with HP Collection the models
hp 48SX/S use Saturn Clarke, 2MHz,
hp 48G/GX/G+ and 49G use Saturn Yorke, 4MHz

http://www.hp-collection.org/calculators.html

Best regards,

[rprosperi]

(06-19-2016 01:59 PM)RPL Calcs Wrote:  In 50G, it can be attributed greater number of functions to user keyboard (up to 11 functions).

And this does not even include long-press, which also is possible.

(06-19-2016 01:59 PM)RPL Calcs Wrote:  The prime the battery can be replaced? What kind is it?

The same battery used by a Samsung Galaxy S3. Though I believe only the normal sized S3 battery will fit, and not the S3 extended battery.

[Thomas Radtke]

(06-19-2016 01:59 PM)RPL Calcs Wrote:  A pro more to 50g.

Considering the effort that went into RPL it doesn't make me wonder why it wins this comparison hands down despite its age.

Cheers to Claudio for reimplementing it!

[ndzied1]

I would have to add on the plus side for the 50g
-unit conversions that don't take an excessive amount of keystrokes to achieve
-multiple equation solve system that iteravly searches/solves for unknowns in linked equations even if the number of unknowns is greater than the number of equations

[peacecalc]

Hello all,

I don't want to offend anybody. In my opinion, at first the question: "How useful is such a comparison between such different machines?" should be answered.

In my eyes we compare very different machines (different target groups, different programming languages, different OS versatility, different input philosophies, different
output possibilities and communication abilities and so on).

And the answers are predictable: this machine is better (for me) because of the feature A, B, C ...(because I like such features). So the answers give a response about the kind of user of the calculator and not so much about the machine.

If you have the machine you like, you are a happy guy, that's all.

[rprosperi]

(06-19-2016 07:46 PM)peacecalc Wrote:  Hello all,

I don't want to offend anybody. In my opinion, at first the question: "How useful is such a comparison between such different machines?" should be answered.

In my eyes we compare very different machines (different target groups, different programming languages, different OS versatility, different input philosophies, different
output possibilities and communication abilities and so on).

And the answers are predictable: this machine is better (for me) because of the feature A, B, C ...(because I like such features). So the answers give a response about the kind of user of the calculator and not so much about the machine.

If you have the machine you like, you are a happy guy, that's all.

I would say that such a discussion is actually quite useful! While answers such as "this machine is better" are not really very helpful, different folks suggesting "this feature or that for doing task XYZ is better on this machine than the other..." can be very helpful for a person looking to do the same task.

So the discussion is useful not for any absolute answer about which is the better machine, but rather it's useful for the ideas that surface in the discussion of folks stating why they prefer one.

All that said, the only fully correct answer is to get both machines, regardless of which pair of machines are being compared.

[Wes Loewer]

For me: 50g
For my students: Prime

I love the 48/49/50, but over the years I've only recommended them to a handful of students who I thought could handle the learning curve. The Prime is the first HP calculator that I can recommend to any of my students.

The main pull for the 50g for me is the better RPL interactivity with CUSTOM menu and easily re-assignable keys (no programming required).

The main draws from the Prime are the fast graphing, advanced graphing, and improved CAS. (With the 50g, there were a number of times when a funky function could take 30-60 seconds to integrate.)

[jrozsas]

See https://youtu.be/IGbk_TpH2c8

[Marcio]

I think the battery/power consumption is less aggressive on the Prime.

[dalupus]

I have had a prime for a few years and recently got a 50g so I could run some RPL programs.

I have to say, I find the 50g much easier to navigate and use.

The lack of user soft keys is a real drag, especially for functions that are only accessible via the catalog.

What I really wish they made was a 50g in the form factor of a ti-92 or an hp 28s (don't hate on the clamshell) with all of the alpha keys.

Or at least a prime running the 50g OS. I do like the Prime's screen and the feel of the keys.

[Eddie W. Shore]

Thank you for adding pros and cons. When I posted the blog entry I knew I was going to miss several.

I agree with the unit conversions and multi-equation solving ease for the HP 50g, and the backlit screen for the Prime.

[Hlib]

I even don't know now which the calculator is the best. For complex mathematical problems I use always HP-50. For school examples and for algorithm elaboration - FX-2.0 is the best because of simplicity of operation here. TI-83plus replaces the FORTRAN sometimes, etc. Unfortunately, I have no enthusiasm to study Prime after MathStudiou - tangled and the unreliable calculator.

[JDW]

(06-22-2016 01:53 PM)dalupus Wrote:  The lack of user soft keys is a real drag...

No user soft keys on the 50G or Prime or both?

[dalupus]

(06-29-2016 03:30 AM)JDW Wrote:  

(06-22-2016 01:53 PM)dalupus Wrote:  The lack of user soft keys is a real drag...

No user soft keys on the 50G or Prime or both?

Prime. 50G has them.

[JDW]

(06-29-2016 12:44 PM)dalupus Wrote:  Prime. 50G has them.

If there are no user softkeys on the Prime, what does the Prime use instead? Nothing? No customizability at all?

Has anyone figured out a way to replace the Prime's firmware to transform it into a really great calc? :-)