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hth · 08-06-2016, 11:04 PM

(08-06-2016 05:33 PM)smp Wrote: I've received my NiMH rechargeable batteries, and charged them overnight, and now I'm good to go.

Trying to get into HP-41C programming, I am running into many programs that have synthetic instructions in them. Not the best help to get familiar with programming when you cannot enter the instruction you come up to in the middle of a program.

I've been looking at snippets on synthetic programming and I'm getting confused by byte grabbers, byte jumpers, and byte loaders, and each needs to be generated by starting with a Memory Lost condition, so especially since I do not have any storage mechanism this seems interesting.

I'm wondering about simply obtaining one of the PPC ROMs. I believe it has a byte loader in it, so I would not have to worry about generating one, and I could get on with entering programs as I wish.

Is this a good idea, or should I simply cool my heels and wait until Monte has more 41CL boards available?

It appears that my HP-41C, along with my Quad Memory module, my Extended Functions/Memory module, and a PPC module might really be sufficient. Or, am I fooling myself?

Your thoughts would be most welcome.

smp

Just an idea that might work. Your Extended Functions/Memory module can be used for storage. It might be possible to load all your valuable things into it, turn the calculator off, unplug the module, do a memory lost (with the EF/M module OUTSIDE), then turn off, plug the module back in. It should survive a short time without power and the memory lost will not reach it when it is unplugged. Just an idea... have not tried it myself, be warned.

The byte grabber is the tool to get if you want to play with synthetics. The easiest way is to create it is from a memory lost. I think it might be possible to do it by other means, consult "Extend you HP-41" for more details.

With the arrival of more accessible MCODE programming devices, these procedures are perhaps a little bit less important these days. There are other ways to access synthetic instructions. I have not created or used a byte grabber for years as I have not felt the need to do synthetic programming.

The PPC ROM is nice. You should be aware of (if you do not already know it) that it was developed at a time when the concept of I/O buffers were not known to the community. As a result, it contains several functions that will make a mess of your alarms, but since you do not currently have the Time module, you will not have a problem by that. You may have a problem when you get the CL as it gives access to many other modules that also are affected by this. The PPC ROM also comes built into the CL when it arrives.

A byte grabber and some books can probably provide many evenings of fun and exploration.

If you want to go hunting for a module, a Time module is a very valuable addition in my opinion, but of course it depends on your needs.

smp · 08-08-2016, 10:27 PM

I received my invoice from Systemyde for my 41CL today, and I just sent in my payment. I'm psyched now. I cannot wait!

Shortly, I'm sure that I'll be starting up a new thread about 41CL Newbie Questions...

smp

**rprosperi** · 08-09-2016, 11:59 PM

(08-06-2016 05:33 PM)smp Wrote: Trying to get into HP-41C programming, I am running into many programs that have synthetic instructions in them.... so, I'm wondering about simply obtaining one of the PPC ROMs. I believe it has a byte loader in it, so I would not have to worry about generating one, and I could get on with entering programs as I wish.

Is this a good idea, or should I simply cool my heels and wait until Monte has more 41CL boards available?

It appears that my HP-41C, along with my Quad Memory module, my Extended Functions/Memory module, and a PPC module might really be sufficient. Or, am I fooling myself?

It's hard for me to advise any 41C user not to get a PPC ROM; they are somewhat ridiculously priced these days.... but yes, this is a good solution if you are going to skip the 41CL, and only buy a couple of physical ROM modules; the PPC ROM has about the best bang-for-your-buck even 30+ years later.

If you will be getting a 41CL (which I do recommend without hesitation) then best to skip getting a real PPC ROM now, as the 41CL has this built-in, along with several hundred other ROMs. You will pay nearly as much for a PPC ROM as the 41CL, which makes the 41Cl a no-brainer... at least to me. Note this advice ignores all collecting and/or investment aspects of having a PPC ROM.

After conversion, your 41CL includes all the standard and extended RAM the 41 can handle, and all your ports are free to (logically) mount any combination of ROMs you may want. The only physical ROM to consider getting is the TIME Module, as this is required to provide the crystal needed by the clock functions, but this is only needed if you plan to use the clock and alarm features.

smp · (This post was last modified: 08-10-2016 12:19 AM by smp.)

(08-09-2016 11:59 PM)rprosperi Wrote: It's hard for me to advise any 41C user not to get a PPC ROM; they are somewhat ridiculously priced these days.... but yes, this is a good solution if you are going to skip the 41CL, and only buy a couple of physical ROM modules; the PPC ROM has about the best bang-for-your-buck even 30+ years later.

If you will be getting a 41CL (which I do recommend without hesitation) then best to skip getting a real PPC ROM now, as the 41CL has this built-in, along with several hundred other ROMs. You will pay nearly as much for a PPC ROM as the 41CL, which makes the 41Cl a no-brainer... at least to me. Note this advice ignores all collecting and/or investment aspects of having a PPC ROM.

After conversion, your 41CL includes all the standard and extended RAM the 41 can handle, and all your ports are free to (logically) mount any combination of ROMs you may want. The only physical ROM to consider getting is the TIME Module, as this is required to provide the crystal needed by the clock functions, but this is only needed if you plan to use the clock and alarm features.

Hi Bob,

Thanks a million for your thoughts. Greatly appreciated.

As you probably have already seen, I wrote that post back a few days when I was wondering about how to proceed. I got my invoice from Monte yesterday and I paid right away. Today I am waiting for the tracking information. Breathlessly.

I am excited to be getting the 41CL. All I really know is that it can go real fast, and it contains a zillion ROMs. I feel like I'm on the verge of a great adventure.

Since I will no longer be using my quad memory and my X-Functions modules, I even have started to think about looking for another HP-41C, if only not to make the same mistake I've made in the past when I divested all of my 41 stuff, and now having to buy it back at twice the price.

Thanks again for all your encouragement.

smp

smp · 08-10-2016, 12:31 AM

By the way, am I still going to need to acquire a mag-card reader?

Thanks,
smp

hth · 08-10-2016, 12:46 AM

(08-10-2016 12:31 AM)smp Wrote: By the way, am I still going to need to acquire a mag-card reader?

Thanks,
smp

Only you can judge. I have not used my card reader for a long time.

Basically, wait until you have a real need for something, then go shopping. A spare HP41 may make sense, but in general, wait until you know you need things.

Module shells can be converted to Clonix modules, but it make sense to use the cheapest modules for this. (I have no idea about module prices).

You may want to be able to transfer to and from your HP41, the CL has a serial port that can be used. Apart from that, there are HPIL and the Wand (input only) which I do use from time to time, but not the card reader. I do not even know if mine still works...

Otherwise Clonix modules are small and nice, especially useful on plain HP41s.

**rprosperi** · 08-10-2016, 12:48 AM

(08-10-2016 12:11 AM)smp Wrote: As you probably have already seen, I wrote that post back a few days when I was wondering about how to proceed. I got my invoice from Monte yesterday and I paid right away. Today I am waiting for the tracking information. Breathlessly.

I was away for a few days and in trying to catch-up, replied to the "last" message in a thread only to find that there was actually another page of replies. So, sorry for the too-late advice, but the good news that your 41CL is on it's way kinda makes it all moot.

All that said, a 2nd 41 to house your existing ROMs is a nice idea. Take your time and wait for a low mileage 41C (preferably w/Tall Keys) to come along; it's such a milestone machine, all HP users should have an original 41C to show off.

Get ready to have your mind blown with the 41CL.

Some suggested must-have ROMs to load:

Angel's LIB4
Angel's OSX
HEPAX
Ext IL+

That should keep you mighty busy for a number of weeks.

Regarding a Card-Reader - IMHO, it's not essential, unless you have some gold still on old cards. HP-IL and the additional storage in the CL Flash make card storage kinda clumsy and a rebuilt card reader just isn't worth the $ that could go elsewhere. That said, it is just as cool to write and read cards today as it was in 1980...

smp · 08-10-2016, 01:14 AM

Thanks very much for your thoughts, guys.

I purchased the SIO cable and the special port cover along with my 41CL, so I'll be ready to go with that. The curious thing for me is that there is no mention of what to do with that interface in the manual (or so it seems to me). There is a description of the internal cable and the connector, but that seems to be all. Is the SIO used very often, or only once in a while? I was hoping that it was something like a backup mechanism to a PC, but it appears that I might still need HP-IL for that?

Thanks,
smp

Monte Dalrymple · 08-10-2016, 05:07 AM

(08-10-2016 01:14 AM)smp Wrote: Thanks very much for your thoughts, guys.

I purchased the SIO cable and the special port cover along with my 41CL, so I'll be ready to go with that. The curious thing for me is that there is no mention of what to do with that interface in the manual (or so it seems to me). There is a description of the internal cable and the connector, but that seems to be all. Is the SIO used very often, or only once in a while? I was hoping that it was something like a backup mechanism to a PC, but it appears that I might still need HP-IL for that?

Thanks,
smp

The serial port is primarily used to upload/download images to/from a PC. With software you can make it talk to anything, but I don't think that anyone has done that. This document: http://systemyde.com/pdf/cl_flash.pdf explains the process.

The PC-side software is here: http://systemyde.com/hp41/files.html

Monte

smp · 08-10-2016, 11:05 AM

(08-10-2016 05:07 AM)Monte Dalrymple Wrote: The serial port is primarily used to upload/download images to/from a PC. With software you can make it talk to anything, but I don't think that anyone has done that. This document: http://systemyde.com/pdf/cl_flash.pdf explains the process.

The PC-side software is here: http://systemyde.com/hp41/files.html

Monte

Thanks very much for the explanation and the pointers, Monte.

As you know, I am a complete newbie, and I'm certain that I'll have many more newbie questions shortly.

8-)

smp

smp · 08-12-2016, 07:10 PM

Whooo hooo !!!

I received my 41CL yesterday, and I had the time to install it today.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH MONTE FOR THIS AWESOME PRODUCT!!!

I am in heaven. I am proceeding slowly, but after turning my 41CL on for the first time, and performing the three steps to get it going, I tried a few of the obvious commands like the TURBO commands. Seeing those go without any problem, I plugged the PPC ROM into port 2 and tried out the CJ routine. Fine, operation as expected. I then tried executing the TURBO50 command and the CJ command again. Instant results! Wow!

I am not usually up for disassembling and reassembling fragile electronic things like the HP-41. Monte's instructions were flawless. I am an extremely satisfied customer!

This is going to be excellent.

smp