History does not show in RPN

[Ben Fairbank]

Page 48 of the User Guide says that in RPN the history will show with operations on the left side of the screen and includes an example illustrating same. My Prime will not show the operations, only the results. Have others found a way to show the operations in history?
Thanks for any suggestions.

[jebem]

What is your software version?
(press Help key, then Tree soft key, then choose "About HP Prime", and press OK soft key)

My calculator doesn't show the commands in history, I never saw it!
I have the latest Software version: 2013 11 25 (5447).
Maybe the User Guide is related to the initial firmware releases?

RPN would not be my first choice here, as the complex Prime software architecture is not tailored to be used in RPN, specially when we choose CAS.
To take full advantage of the Prime capabilities, I believe it is better used in Textbook mode (natural math entry mode).

[Ben Fairbank]

I have the same software version (have had the Prime only for a few days, just updated software yesterday). I have used HP calcs for 40 uears and have RPN in my DNA by now and prefer using it when possible; seeing the history would be helpful.
Ben

[rprosperi]

(03-05-2014 08:51 PM)Ben Fairbank Wrote:  Page 48 of the User Guide says that in RPN the history will show with operations on the left side of the screen and includes an example illustrating same. My Prime will not show the operations, only the results. Have others found a way to show the operations in history?
Thanks for any suggestions.

The screen shot on that page is not correct for RPN. The equations shown on the left side of the screen are clearly algebraic formulas. For example, it shows "COS(25)*547", which in RPN would be entered as 25, COS, 547, *.

Also, despite the misleading screen-shot, a careful re-reading will confirm that it does not say that it shows operations on one side and results on the other, it really only discusses RPN results, which is consistent with historical RPN usage.

This section in the UG opens with the statement "The results of your calculations are kept in history." and that is pretty much what it does.

I've been through the exact same process, misled by the same bad screen-shot.

The two-sided display is nice for Algebraic/Textbook, but if you think about it, there really can't be an equivalent feature in RPN, since one doesn't enter equations in a format that one could simply go back and recall.

That said, RPN on the Prime Home screen is quite similar to RPN on the machines you've used in the past, and most things work just as you would expect. The odd (perhaps unintuitive is a better word) stuff happens when you try to access RPN content from other features, like CAS.

jebem's comments about mixing RPN with other modes and features in Prime not being intuitive at first are quite correct, but (imho) this is really just because there has never been another machine with such diverse features before Prime.

[Ben Fairbank]

Those are all good points. Thank you for responding. Though I have had the Prime for less than a week, I am already distrusting the user guide a bit based on oddities here and there in it.

[john74]

I'm was a long time HP user (since HP-65) but ever since the graphical models, I have been disappointed that HP never used that large display for the one obvious feature every modern calculator should have - show what you entered in textbook form so you can see if everything was entered correctly, even while using RPN entry mode. And the textbook doubles as a label of what all those values are in your stack when you want to reuse one later.

So I checked if the HP Prime maybe at last has this feature, checked the manual and there it was on page 48. So without further ado, ordered the calculator, only to find out that the manual is incorrect.

Are there other RPN users who would like this feature done?

[Voldemar]

With Prime I used to use this method - expression in single quotation marks, Enter twice, Eval, the result is displayed, if I need new expression, similar to first, then single quotation marks, tap twice the first expression on screen, now it in quotes in entry line, I can edit it, Enter, Enter, Eval… You see, there is history in RPN mode.
   

[Nigel (UK)]

(06-16-2018 02:57 AM)john74 Wrote:  I'm was a long time HP user (since HP-65) but ever since the graphical models, I have been disappointed that HP never used that large display for the one obvious feature every modern calculator should have - show what you entered in textbook form so you can see if everything was entered correctly, even while using RPN entry mode. And the textbook doubles as a label of what all those values are in your stack when you want to reuse one later.

So I checked if the HP Prime maybe at last has this feature, checked the manual and there it was on page 48. So without further ado, ordered the calculator, only to find out that the manual is incorrect.

Are there other RPN users who would like this feature done?

The AcronRPN app (iOS and Android) does exactly this.

Nigel (UK)

[Carsen]

(06-16-2018 02:57 AM)john74 Wrote:  Are there other RPN users who would like this feature done?

I believe I don't understand. Are you trying to say that you want to type an equation into the calculator via RPN and for it to display the equation to check for error before evaluating?

[john74]

(06-17-2018 12:58 AM)Carsen Wrote:  

(06-16-2018 02:57 AM)john74 Wrote:  Are there other RPN users who would like this feature done?

I believe I don't understand. Are you trying to say that you want to type an equation into the calculator via RPN and for it to display the equation to check for error before evaluating?

Yes (well after calculating it is fine). To explain how I see it, you know how when you are using RPN to do a calculation from something written down, you see it in textbook form visually and mentally convert to RPN as you press the keys. e.g. many examples in HP manuals show the textbook form and then a string of equivalent keystrokes in RPN. The string of keystrokes isn't readable by itself, it's just teaching you the mental conversion you do as you enter it. The existence of this mental conversion that happens when you use RPN means it makes sense to separate the mode of display and the mode of entry. Often the mode setting is called the "entry mode". You could have both an entry mode setting and a display mode setting that are different. Some people might like to enter it in algebraic but see it in textbook, just because they are used to algebraic entry, but would still like to see the more readable textbook form. Others might like to enter it in RPN, but see it in algebraic, say.

[john74]

(06-16-2018 11:04 PM)Nigel (UK) Wrote:  The AcronRPN app (iOS and Android) does exactly this.
Nigel (UK)

So it does, thanks! Have installed. Now I just need an app to simulate those real HP keys!

[john74]

(06-16-2018 09:12 PM)Voldemar Wrote:  With Prime I used to use this method - expression in single quotation marks, Enter twice, Eval, the result is displayed, if I need new expression, similar to first, then single quotation marks, tap twice the first expression on screen, now it in quotes in entry line, I can edit it, Enter, Enter, Eval… You see, there is history in RPN mode.

Yes I was messing around with something similar yesterday. I would enter an initial minimal sub-expression in quote marks such as '-1' or '1+1' or 'sin(1)'. It goes on the stack as an unevaluated expression. (Unfortunately just a quoted number like '1' gets evaluated which is a shame.) After that, you can enter normal numeric operands and operators as per normal RPN, and the calculator calculates the results as a still unevaluated expression. You have to start with the quote marks each time you start a new subexpression. At the end, as you say press Enter a second time and Eval to see both the textbook and answer. Unfortunately it is too cumbersome to be switching between little bits of algebraic and RPN to be practical. Also, unfortunately, the QUOTE function doesn't seem to work in RPN mode.

[Nigel (UK)]

(06-16-2018 02:57 AM)john74 Wrote:  I'm was a long time HP user (since HP-65) but ever since the graphical models, I have been disappointed that HP never used that large display for the one obvious feature every modern calculator should have - show what you entered in textbook form so you can see if everything was entered correctly, even while using RPN entry mode. And the textbook doubles as a label of what all those values are in your stack when you want to reuse one later.

So I checked if the HP Prime maybe at last has this feature, checked the manual and there it was on page 48. So without further ado, ordered the calculator, only to find out that the manual is incorrect.

Are there other RPN users who would like this feature done?

The AcronRPN app (iOS and Android) does exactly this.

Nigel (UK)

[toml_12953]

(06-17-2018 05:27 AM)john74 Wrote:  Also, unfortunately, the QUOTE function doesn't seem to work in RPN mode.

Did you try

'SIN(X)'
<Enter>
QUOTE(1)
<enter>

[Joe Horn]

(06-16-2018 11:04 PM)Nigel (UK) Wrote:  The AcronRPN app (iOS and Android) does exactly this.

One unsolved problem with implementing this idea (even AcronRPN hasn't solved it) is how to detect expressions that grow too large to handle. For example, in AcronRPN, put a 1 on the stack and then repeatedly press ENTER Y^X. After about a dozen repeats (on my iPad), the expression grows so large that a 0 gets pushed to the stack instead of a copy of the expression. That is obviously a bug that can be debugged, but the underlying problem remains: How can the problem of too-large expressions be solved? Prime has even less memory than an iPad.

[dae]

Another Android app, RpnCalc, (free!) keeps track of the values and keys pressed. It is accessed by pressing a 'tape' button. It does not try to track any particular equation, so each "X" line is one line in the history. Something like this would be a boon, because you would be able to review for entry errors.

Here is a screenshot from the Google Play Store. If it becomes a dead link, just search for RpnCalc and scroll through the screenshots provided by the developer.

Screenshot of RPN history 'tape'