WIRED; It's Past Time for You To Ditch That Fancy Scientific Calculator

[Matt Agajanian]

(08-09-2017 04:31 PM)Luigi Vampa Wrote:  Poor boy, that WIRED's author has all my sympathy. It is clear he didn't enjoy programming his HP-11C, and he got traumatized.
Maybe other colleagues of him had better calcs and didn't suffer the lack of solver, integration, complex # support, matrix maths, etc. All this had a clear impact on him as a student, so that it is more than understandable he now has masterminded a plan to wipe all calcs out of the earth's surface ASAP >D

In full agreement here. Sorry, but these new generations of kids, semi-adults, 20-, 30- something adults have absolutely NO understanding, NO experience, NO appreciation for anything older than an iDevice or Galaxy thingamabob! They've NEVER faced the challenge of developing an AOS or RPN or RPL 100/224 step or 448 byte 15C program that included DSE/DSZ, ISG/ISZ looping, conditional tests & the 'do if true rule.' These kids have no concept of subroutines and return registers.

Sorry, but if kids are going to use a calculator, learn & understand all branches of mathematics, it would better with a keystroke programmable one in the realm of the calculators we grew up with.

[Dan]

Agree absolutely. At my last school a teacher said at a staff meeting (in all seriousness) "I am tech-savvy, I have the latest iphone". The students have the same misconception. I have tried to teach them basic programming on their TI nSpires, but in the end had to just give them the programs.

[Gamo]

Great article but still the pocket calculator will be around forever. Scientific Calculator is a great tools to learn math for generation to come. It can be use to practice manual calculation and test the result to learn all the steps which help accumulate math skill. Pocket calculator is more reliable than any other type of computing devices like Mobile Phone, Tablet and Laptop. Pocket Calculator is focus on computing number only and that's all it do without any distraction in between like mobile phone, tablet and computer. So think about Pocket Calculator as a specific tools. Computer is much better than pocket calculator when you do big project work like in the Lab crunching numbers. Each type have difference purpose.

[Thomas Radtke]

(08-09-2017 03:40 PM)Accutron Wrote:  You need a simplex model with beveled in/cm rules on the base - K&E 4053, Dietzgen Mannheim, etc.

I forgot I actually own of those! Not in use as I prefer my Aristo Studio (which came with a seperate ruler).

Thanks for reminding me :-).

[toml_12953]

(08-09-2017 12:37 PM)Logan Wrote:  And like someone else mentioned, it's the step I use to verify my programs are working and that I've gotten all my parentheses closed properly

Who needs parentheses when we have RPN?

[pier4r]

(08-09-2017 10:31 PM)Matt Agajanian Wrote:  In full agreement here. Sorry, but these new generations of kids, semi-adults, 20-, 30- something adults have absolutely NO understanding, NO experience, NO appreciation for anything older than an iDevice or Galaxy thingamabob! They've NEVER faced the challenge of developing an AOS or RPN or RPL 100/224 step or 448 byte 15C program that included DSE/DSZ, ISG/ISZ looping, conditional tests & the 'do if true rule.' These kids have no concept of subroutines and return registers.

Sorry, but if kids are going to use a calculator, learn & understand all branches of mathematics, it would better with a keystroke programmable one in the realm of the calculators we grew up with.

Aside that as I wrote this is a double post, well if there is discussion, why not. I wouldn't generalize. I mean there are plenty of people that even 40 and working in IT barely program on a workstation that is way more powerful than a calculator(I bring personal experience here).

But there are also kids that do something. The point here is not 2-3 person but is the trend. I don't think it is really much better to use a browser rather than a calculator that is quick due to its input interface.

[pier4r]

(08-09-2017 11:02 AM)Paul Dale Wrote:  Not quite:

- cut -

I agree with your post!

(08-09-2017 12:38 PM)David Hayden Wrote:  And you don't want them to get distracted for an hour by some syntax error when they could be concentrating on physics.

I agree with your observation. The hp50g was a blast in 2010 (when I got my first) because it had (and has) a ready made environment for math computations (and not only), it is just there to be used. Like phone is ready for calls, although computers can do them too. One could do the same in a programming language but it takes quite a bit of time to setup it properly (although it may be fun).

(08-09-2017 04:57 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  The "reasons" why we all need to ditch our calculators are laughable:

Excellent post.

[EugeneNine]

(08-09-2017 04:57 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  On a side note:
The OP talks about accounting and Excel... those things don't mix! (not Excel's fault, actually, but binary floating point in general)
Real accounting requires decimal arithmetic, so Excel is out of the question for accounting, and so is python.
Before somebody jumps with "python can use decimal arithmetic". That's true, but look at a few examples of what python code looks like when using decimal. Hardly as clean as the article's example, and not very practical for quick prototyping and solving.
If you do accounting, a calculator using decimal math is a necessary tool. An application or web interface using decimal would do just fine if you don't make heavy use of it and can put up with the slower pace.

Don't get me started on Excel, I use it at work and am constantly amazed at the amount of bugs/issues it has. I find OpenOffice much more pleasant to use.

[EugeneNine]

(08-09-2017 10:31 PM)Matt Agajanian Wrote:  Sorry, but these new generations of kids, semi-adults, 20-, 30- something adults have absolutely NO understanding, NO experience, NO appreciation for anything older than an iDevice or Galaxy thingamabob!

My son calls my 48sx 'droid48' because his first experience with a calculator was on a phone. I generally don't let him handle the real thing since I can get a new phone easier than a new 48sx.

[EugeneNine]

(08-10-2017 03:48 AM)Dan Wrote:  Agree absolutely. At my last school a teacher said at a staff meeting (in all seriousness) "I am tech-savvy, I have the latest iphone". The students have the same misconception. I have tried to teach them basic programming on their TI nSpires, but in the end had to just give them the programs.

Thats like saying "I'm tech-savy, I have AOL"

[Eddie W. Shore]

Here's a reason why calculators shouldn't be ditched: Calculators don't need an internet connection or a browser to work. If you rely solely on the internet, and the internet goes out or Google goes out of business, then what?

[Eddie W. Shore]

(08-09-2017 02:30 PM)Namir Wrote:  Ironically for me, it is my (shared) love for calculators, this web site, attending HHC conferences (and mingling with very smart folks) that has pushed me more in the last 13 years to develop and improve root-seeking algorithms. Granted that I use Excel as the first tool to test new ideas and approaches. I then apply what seems to work on the HP-41CX calculator and/or its emulator to easily get a good feel of the speed for obtaining solutions.

Perhaps it is the Algorithm that is king. This king has a good alliance with programmable calculators.

Namir

Cheers!

There is also nothing like the real thing. There is just something to touching buttons than a flat screen.

[brickviking]

(08-11-2017 12:18 PM)Eddie W. Shore Wrote:  There is also nothing like the real thing. There is just something to touching buttons than a flat screen.

I've found one area where a touch screen can work, but only if it supports multitouch: zooming a graph in and out (a la HP Prime). Otherwise, the feel of buttons are a thing you can't duplicate.

I can't claim the depth of expertise here that most people can, but it's my HP-50G I reach for in a lot of cases when I want to do some quick calculations. That, or the FX-82TL that I uhm.... modified a bit by adding a solar cell. I just have to manage the context switch (ALG|RPL).

The HP-50G is also what I use for quick storage of a series of variables used for airplanes, in my Q400 flight simulation. I don't have to switch away from the flight simulator, simply pick up the calculator. If I need to work out how to convert from one unit to another, the HP-50G supports that too. (Take that, FX-82!)

In short, even with the ability to use the browser or python like the Wired article stated, I won't be putting aside my calculators any time soon. Calculators simply require batteries, which don't require changing very often. They don't require the internet to be working; or a computer and some power.

(Post 68)

[Vtile]

Phew! I'm not scientist, so I do not need to ditch my calculators.

[EugeneNine]

(08-11-2017 12:12 PM)Eddie W. Shore Wrote:  Here's a reason why calculators shouldn't be ditched: Calculators don't need an internet connection or a browser to work. If you rely solely on the internet, and the internet goes out or Google goes out of business, then what?

Well, this is only partly correct. if you rely on web/cloud based services and the internet is out then yes, but all of my computers/tablets/phones can still access my work without the internet since I run my own servers on my own local network and sync the data across multiple devices rather than having to access one from another.

One of my early microcontroller projects though was building a daq module for my 48sx. I was using a pic microcontroller's ADC to send data to my hp via the rs232 port. never did finish it though but the idea was to be able to automate taking voltage readings over time and plot things on the graph.