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Sikuq · 03-10-2014, 10:39 PM

I'm sure there is a thread somewhere on this; can someone please show me where? Much obliged.

Paul Dale · 03-10-2014, 11:47 PM

It would be possible. Someone would have to port the firmware across.
You'd probably want to remap the key layout, use the extra screen space effectively and basically not be a 34S any more.

- Pauli

Sikuq · 03-11-2014, 12:15 AM

Pauli,

Thanks. So I take it you guys (34s) have never contemplated such use of hardware. I'm anxiously awaiting any news on a possible 43s. Thanks for your (et. al.) great work.

Sikuq

Paul Dale · 03-11-2014, 12:50 AM

Walter isn't in the least bit interested in producing a graphing calculator.

- Pauli

Sikuq · (This post was last modified: 03-11-2014 03:04 AM by Sikuq.)

Pauli,

How unfortunate; I didn't think that would be much different than the printing functions. I have been away from my 34s for a while because of the limited I/O functionality; I have found a way around that so I am now up-flashing my 34s. I couldn't find the instructions in Walter's manual on how to start programming the unit; is that in there? I finally found out from the excellent beginner's guide which Walter referenced, and I am now back up to full programming speed.

It is a fantastic calculator. Thanks Pauli.

Sikuq

walter b · 03-11-2014, 07:33 AM

Thanks for the kind words about our baby. And yes, as Pauli stated already I'm not interested in designing and programming battleships Undecided

but pocket calculators. Smile

(03-11-2014 02:03 AM)Sikuq Wrote: I couldn't find the instructions in Walter's manual on how to start programming the unit; is that in there?

d:-? Please see pp. 10 and 66. What do you miss? TIA for enlightenment.

d:-)

Han · 03-11-2014, 05:23 PM

They may be "battleships" but there's no reason to actually re-implement a "battleship." The 43s has the look and feel of a graphing calculator, but its design is mostly as a pocket calculator, right? So why not implement something similar on a (seemingly) similar piece of hardware, but with a few more bells and whistles (color, rechargeable batter, and touchscreen)? No one says you have to create another graphing calculator :-)

Sikuq · 03-11-2014, 05:30 PM

Walter,

I looked again at the pages indicated by you, thanks.

The information needed by beginners however is scattered around under various tables - great for experts - but frustrating for beginners like me expecting (and thus missing) some kind of a comprehensive entry point. The ("by conehead"?) Beginner's Guide fills that void perfectly, so I am not complaining. It is a fact that your 34s manual is world class and I marvel at the details and your logical order when I read through it.

I think it is absolutely fantastic that the 34s is still evolving. I love the new y-register display concept (thus I can see/verify my two distribution parameters simultaneously), and yes "just how many flags do we need", and yes one does not want the display to "move around" all the time either. And as I use the alpha-register display extensively (for input prompts, data review, and what-if analysis) I wish I could display the alpha-view exclusively without the x-reg. display. The best I can do is have the bottom x-reg. display three dashes. Can I turn those off as well?

The desire for graphing is easy to explain. Although almost every aspect of graphs can be measured numerically (average, deviation, skew, etc.) there is no substitute for a gestalt view of say a scatter plot or multiple theoretical distribution data overlays. It tells me a lot more than I can gather from numbers alone. Thus porting/integrating your 34s onto the Prime would be an unbelievable machine.

Thanks for your response.

Sikuq

walter b · 03-11-2014, 06:00 PM

Please allow me to disagree. Although the 43S will be a bit larger than the WP 34S, it will still be shirt-pocketable and significantly smaller than a HP-50G or a Prime AFAIK. It's definitly not my intention to create a large vessel or support such work. Those are nice machines for (both kinds of) students obviously but not for a professional IMHO. I'm not in the education business in that matter - too tedious.

Maybe I have to repeat (I stated that more than once also on the old forum):

IF the 20b/30b had a reasonable display (at least like the 17bii)
OR IF the 17bii were repurposable
OR IF the 35S were repurposable and had a better keyboard layout
THEN we could have created something closer to the 42S on such a base.

Alas, the real world chose to be different, thus we created just the WP 34S. Sorry.

Thinking about progress, the best (and only) way AFAICS to overcome the limitations of the WP 34S is a scaled reptile. Its LCD is simply awesome (though a bit higher than I'd have chosen, but that will come handy with matrices). Its ovarall dimensions are reasonable still. AFAIK power consumption is low enough for a pocket device - what more can we wish for a tool? Well, unless we'd want to light the dark by fancy color displays or play games on it ...

Hope that explains my intention. I know of enough people sharing it to follow that path. YMMV

d:-I

Sikuq · 03-11-2014, 06:13 PM

Walter,

I read you and yes the pocket form factor is a good point.

Sikuq

Jonathan Cameron · 03-11-2014, 06:24 PM

(03-11-2014 06:00 PM)walter b Wrote: ...the best (and only) way AFAICS to overcome the limitations of the WP 34S is a scaled reptile.

Walter, sorry to be little behind on the history/terminology, but what does 'scaled reptile' refer to?

-Jonathan

Massimo Gnerucci · (This post was last modified: 03-11-2014 06:50 PM by Massimo Gnerucci.)

(03-11-2014 06:24 PM)Jonathan Cameron Wrote:
(03-11-2014 06:00 PM)walter b Wrote: ...the best (and only) way AFAICS to overcome the limitations of the WP 34S is a scaled reptile.

Walter, sorry to be little behind on the history/terminology, but what does 'scaled reptile' refer to?

-Jonathan

Hi Jonathan, here's your historical referral. Message #39.

And a movie, too! ;)

Marcus von Cube · (This post was last modified: 03-11-2014 06:56 PM by Marcus von Cube.)

(03-11-2014 06:24 PM)Jonathan Cameron Wrote: Walter, sorry to be little behind on the history/terminology, but what does 'scaled reptile' refer to?

It's the codename for the DIY5 (Do It Yourself 5) hardware.

Jonathan Cameron · 03-11-2014, 06:58 PM

(03-11-2014 06:55 PM)Marcus von Cube Wrote:
(03-11-2014 06:24 PM)Jonathan Cameron Wrote: Walter, sorry to be little behind on the history/terminology, but what does 'scaled reptile' refer to?

It's the codename for the DIY5 (Do It Yourself 5) hardware.

Thanks!

walter b · 03-11-2014, 08:59 PM

(03-11-2014 05:30 PM)Sikuq Wrote: The information needed by beginners however is scattered around under various tables - great for experts - but frustrating for beginners like me expecting (and thus missing) some kind of a comprehensive entry point. The (...) Beginner's Guide fills that void perfectly, so I am not complaining.

I frankly admit I was too lazy to write the 123rd introduction to keystroke programming - thus I pointed to the HP-42S Owner's Handbook in that matter; it does that job very well. I know "copy & paste" being quite popular today but I don't like it unless I can add some extra value which I couldn't at that time.

Quote:I think it is absolutely fantastic that the 34s is still evolving. I love the new y-register display concept ...

That goes to Bit Smile

We had always hoped for some community movement rising with the WP 34S - seems the first shy twigs start growing three years after.

Quote:And as I use the alpha-register display extensively (for input prompts, data review, and what-if analysis) I wish I could display the alpha-view exclusively without the x-reg. display. The best I can do is have the bottom x-reg. display three dashes. Can I turn those off as well?

Not yet. And the WP 34S project is closed in a way for long. But it's all open source, you know ... Wink

Quote:The desire for graphing is easy to explain. Although almost every aspect of graphs can be measured numerically (average, deviation, skew, etc.) there is no substitute for a gestalt view of say a scatter plot or multiple theoretical distribution data overlays. It tells me a lot more than I can gather from numbers alone.

Always funny watching which German words make it over the pond. Of course you're right. A picture tells a thousand words (or numbers). Nevertheless, our priority 1 is making a reasonable numeric calculator. It will be open source again. So anybody who wants to add some data graphic to it is invited to write it on his/her own or together with other folks - as usual ...

OK?

d;-)

Sikuq · 03-11-2014, 09:54 PM

Walter,

Thanks for your detailed responses to my questions.

I regret to understand that your team no longer focuses on innovating the 34s' code, but if that is an indication of an active team involvement in the 43s instead it certainly is a worthy trade-off.

Sikuq

Paul Dale · 03-11-2014, 10:41 PM

(03-11-2014 05:30 PM)Sikuq Wrote: The best I can do is have the bottom x-reg. display three dashes. Can I turn those off as well?

Not in the current firmware. The change to hide them is literally a one line edit. Line 2122 of display.c in fact.

- Pauli

Sikuq · 03-12-2014, 12:45 AM

Pauli,

Thanks for your detail about turning it off. Unfortunately I don't have the ability to edit and compile (I haven't done C-language in years and I don't have the software) so I will have to wait for someone else to do that. I was hoping that perhaps we could use a flag in MODE to toggle some setting like the one you suggest as I never have a need for as many flags as are available.

Sikuq