Voyager Series: How "rare" are they, really?

[BarryT]

Hi all,
. Curious about the Voyager Series, (specifically... but the rest of the HP calcs as well), and if anyone knows exactly how 'rare' some of them are? Mainly... do the levels of difficulty listed in the "Collectors Corner" of MoHPC still hold water, or are they in need of over-haul?

. I'm not sure how old those are estimates are, so I can see some of them needing to be updated... in both directions. As more people discover things they have stuck away, and, as access to the net has become even more widespread than when the list was compiled... I can see an influx of calculators becoming available 'online'. Then again... for some, I can see that time has made them more rare as well.

. Anyway... just thought I'd see what the thoughts are from the experts here in HP-land

Thanks everyone.

[Jlouis]

HP 16C and HP 10C are rare, although I particulary don't seek for them, so I maybe wrong.

HP 15C and HP 11C are easy to find, but mint ones are a little bit expensive specially if boxed.

HP15C LE is more difficult to find and of course more expensive, as I think there was two or three batches for it, and 15C was produced from 82 to 89. But 15C LE has bugs and keys sometimes have problems, so it's said.

For me the 15c, being landscape, truly pocketable, no bugs that I know, very powefull, very ease to use and program, keys functions perfectly arranged, extremely beautiful and elegant, etc, is a master piece of technology design (I'm not sure, but it seems that I like the 15C a little bit).

I wont mention the HP 12c for obvious reasons.

If you don't have a 15C, grab one, you wont regret.

Cheers

JL

[Dave Frederickson]

(09-21-2017 09:22 PM)Jlouis Wrote:  HP 15C and HP 11C are easy to find, but mint ones are a little bit expensive specially if boxed.

If you keep your eyes peeled you might find one cheap. I have a 15C that cost 50 cents!
http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-5827.html

[Jlouis]

(09-21-2017 09:31 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 09:22 PM)Jlouis Wrote:  HP 15C and HP 11C are easy to find, but mint ones are a little bit expensive specially if boxed.

If you keep your eyes peeled you might find one cheap. I have a 15C that cost 50 cents!
http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-5827.html

WOW! That's what we can call a bargain!! Really luck you are!!

[Dave Frederickson]

(09-21-2017 09:37 PM)Jlouis Wrote:  WOW! That's what we can call a bargain!! Really luck you are!!

Lucky to have good friends.

[BarryT]

(09-21-2017 09:31 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  ... have a 15C that cost 50 cents!

Ddddaaaaaaannnnnnngggggggg, very nice!

Fortunately, I actually have one of each of the Voyagers... though not fortunate enough to get a 50 cent 15c, or a 10 dollar 16c as mentioned in a different thread.

I agree about the 15c though... that thing is awesome... I've loved it ever since I first used my dad's in '85.

I've read a few posts about the LE being of pretty poor quality... but I guess that's a side effect of today's society having a "throw away" mentality. Today an awful lot of things are manufactured with horrible quality. So sad. Things in the past were made to last... not so, (in general), anymore.

[Tim Wessman]

And if you take into account inflation from the original price you paid for what the LE was sold for what fraction of its cost is the LE?

[Gilles59]

(09-21-2017 09:50 PM)BarryT Wrote:  I've read a few posts about the LE being of pretty poor quality...

I desagree about this. The bug of the PAUSE command may be ennoying but the 15c LE is a really very beautifull and very fast calculator

[BarryT]

(09-22-2017 07:39 PM)Gilles59 Wrote:  I desagree about this.

Your post is good to know\hear

The "poor quality" I was referring to was not about functionality... I've heard that's just as good, if not better, than the original. What I've "heard", ( and btw, all this is hear-say, I've never actually gotten my hands on one of little LE marvels, but I would love to ), is that the plastic, and more to the point, the buttons, feel cheap and flimsy. Some of the reviewers I've read claim they're nowhere near as 'solid' or robust feeling as the original 15c from the '80s.

Hopefully that's not correct, although, since it's coming from China, I would venture to guess the quality is indeed not even close to that of a 15c that was produced in the US during the '80s.

[Sylvain Cote]

(09-22-2017 04:44 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote:  And if you take into account inflation from the original price you paid for what the LE was sold for what fraction of its cost is the LE?

HP-15C

Code:

1981 $135.00 USD -> $364.63 USD 2017 -> 170.1% of cumulative rate of inflation
1983 $120.00 USD -> $295.81 USD 2017 -> 146.5% of cumulative rate of inflation
1986  $99.00 USD -> $221.77 USD 2017 -> 124.0% of cumulative rate of inflation
1989  $80.00 USD -> $158.40 USD 2017 ->  98.0% of cumulative rate of inflation

HP-15C Limited Edition 30th Anniversary

Code:

2011  $99.99 USD -> $108.06 USD 2017 ->   9.1% of cumulative rate of inflation

References:
http://www.finseth.com/hpdata/hp15c.php
http://www.usinflationcalculator.com

[BarryT]

(09-22-2017 04:44 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote:  And if you take into account inflation from the original price you paid for what the LE was sold for what fraction of its cost is the LE?

Still though, even if we look at the 1981 "selling price", ( which in no way what so ever reflects the price to actually manufacture the 15c, because businesses are in business to make a profit, so we all very well know it didn't cost HP anywhere close to $135 to mass produce a calculator that's probably 97%, or more, plastic ), and adjust that for 2017 dollars, and then compare it to the LE; we clearly see that the LE's "selling price" is 29% that of the original 15c.

However, just because something "sells" for a lesser amount, ( i.e., it's less 'expensive' ), that in no way means it needs to be made more 'cheaply'. You can still build things that are of high quality and not make them cost an arm and a leg.

Now, perhaps that's not what Tim was getting at? But the way I read the response was that he's saying "well... it cost 1/3 of the original 15c, so why do you expect the quality would be as good?".

To answer that.... I expect the quality to be as good simply because HP put it's name on it. Don't get me wrong, I do like HP; however, I highly suspect that if Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard were still alive and calling the shots at corporate, I think HP's quality would be a far cry above where it has gone to today.

[Jim Horn]

Regarding quality, no, Bill and Dave aren't in charge any more. And the entire supply chain has changed radically.

HP Corvallis no longer produces its own ICs from scratch and probably doesn't have the double shot injection molding machines, the pad printers to do the faceplates, or any number of other technologies on hand any more to make these machines any more. In the 1980s, they did and many had been amortized by prior generation calculators ($795 in 1974? $395 in 1971? $700 for a watch in 1977?). To make a 1980s clone of any HP calculator would take many tens of millions of dollars to acquire, restore, maintain and run the factory line to do so. With the limited market for such machines, would you really want to pay many thousands for a real HP-15C?

So HP does what it can, especially when the calculator team is a small group, not a whole division with vast resources. I'm amazed at what Tim and company pull off as it is.

Just my two cents worth...

[BarryT]

(09-22-2017 11:43 PM)Jim Horn Wrote:  Regarding quality, no, Bill and Dave aren't in charge any more. And the entire supply chain has changed radically.
...
So HP does what it can, especially when the calculator team is a small group, not a whole division with vast resources. I'm amazed at what Tim and company pull off as it is.

Totally agree with you... and yes... kudos definitely need to go to Tim and the others for the feats they pull off!!!

[Gerson W. Barbosa]

(09-21-2017 09:50 PM)BarryT Wrote:  Today an awful lot of things are manufactured with horrible quality.

Such is the case of the HP-15C LE. Literally… :-)

[d b]

(09-23-2017 12:09 AM)Gerson W. Barbosa Wrote:  Such is the case of the HP-15C LE. Literally… :-)

Yes. HP really slipped up there.

[Thomas Radtke]

(09-21-2017 09:50 PM)BarryT Wrote:  I've read a few posts about the LE being of pretty poor quality... but I guess that's a side effect of today's society having a "throw away" mentality. Today an awful lot of things are manufactured with horrible quality. So sad. Things in the past were made to last... not so, (in general), anymore.

The 15C LE is of excellent quality in terms of hardware. I'm absolutely sure reports about bad keyboards (we're not talking about the first batch, which suffered from residue underneath the contact domes) are due to bad debounce timing - an emulator problem in firmware!

[Gamo]

Some model of Voyager Series are consider rare. The 10C and 16C is very hard to find. Other than that the 11C and 15C not to hard to find one. The 12C is the easiest. The rare voyager series to my opinion are 10C and 16C if you can find a good condition this will be a very rare collection.

Gamo

[BarryT]

Oh wow... I wasn't aware it was actually running an emulator layer of the original 15c code. Now I really want to find one to play with.

But no... the reviews of unhappy owners of the new LE I had been reading were almost entirely about the keys "feeling" cheap... I hadn't read anything, until now, about the debounce issues. Though I had also heard complaints about it sucking down way too much 'go juice' too, ( i.e., very short battery life).

I really like your reply from a different thread though... this one:

Thomas Radtke Wrote:  

Ron Ross Wrote:  The Hp 15c LE was simply a fan boy calculator as many have said.

It was advertized as Great Gift, so not even HP took it serious.

That's just priceless!


While I wouldn't mind having an LE just to 'have', after reading various people's complaints about the things... as a daily driver I think I'd prefer using my original 15c ... it may be considerably slower, but ya know... we were able to put men on the moon just fine using slide rules and comparatively slow computers the size of buildings... so honestly, there's absolutely no reason a 'real' 15c shouldn't be good enough today... they can still hold their own just fine. Perhaps you can't program them in a Pascal-esque language... and maybe they can't graph for you, or solve equations like a PC can... but that's perfectly ok... it just means we actually have to know how to do math and solve equations, instead of letting the machines do all that for us. What a novel concept.

Hmmmm, ok... I should probably get down off my soap box now... my apologies for my 'rant' :-o


However, the original question I posted has gone a tad bit off topic. Ssssooooo, to get it back on track... do folks here, ( in general ), feel the "Collector's Corner" table regarding how easy or difficult it is to find\acquire the various calculators is still relatively accurate\reliable? Or, is it in need of a bit of updating?

[BarryT]

(09-23-2017 09:21 AM)Gamo Wrote:  Some model of Voyager Series are consider rare. The 10C and 16C is very hard to find. Other than that the 11C and 15C not to hard to find one. The 12C is the easiest. The rare voyager series to my opinion are 10C and 16C if you can find a good condition this will be a very rare collection.

Gamo

Thanks for keeping it on topic, Gamo!!! That's much better than I've been doing, and I started the thread... ut oh!

[Gerson W. Barbosa]

(09-23-2017 09:21 AM)Gamo Wrote:  Some model of Voyager Series are consider rare. The 10C and 16C is very hard to find.

But if you find a 16C chances are it will be in very good shape, I’ve been told.

http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/post-70082.html#pid70082

Gerson.