HP Prime or HP 50g

[BERNARD MICHAUD]

I forgot to mention that my post above was in reply to post 99 and 100.
Re: hp Prime Solver App and Complex Numbers.

Bm

[JDW]

(07-14-2018 01:30 AM)BERNARD MICHAUD Wrote:  I am the author of ElectLibrary 1.0 posted on the hpMuseum site here. The program was also transferred to hpcalc.org and is presently suspended for now.
...I should also say that I have never used the command cSolve and whether it can be used within the Solver App.

So your work on the EE Library for the HP Prime is suspended until you can determine if cSolve can be used within the Solver App?

[cyrille de brébisson]

Hello,

The solver app is using the old 48 solver in the case of a single equation being checked and the cas 'solve' function if more than one equation is checked.

I do not know exactly what you want to do, but if the program wants to do more than that, the solver app is most likley not the right solution.

Unfortunatley, since we do not have an "EQLIST" or similar user function, if you wanted to recreate the solver app UI, it would take a little bit of work at this point in time. Sorry about that.

But we are more than open to help you in making some progresses there.

Cyrille

[Komanguy]

Hi all! Thanks for this great thread.

To sum up:
- if you are an rpl power user go for the 50g
- else hp prime is your best choice (cheaper at the moment)

But since hp prime is more hardware capable, here are some enhancements hp can provide:
- add RPL programming
- simplify commands selection by using soft keys more and drop down menu less
- give printed version of the manual (how can be such a powerful device underused since there no printed manual? Does hp really want owners to print 700 pages on their own? When you are interested with something, you take the time to know (by reading) that thing.

Thanks

[John Keith]

I don't think that including a 700-page manual with every calculator is sensible for business or environmental reasons. It seems to be broadly agreed that most users never even look at manuals. It would be great if HP could make printed manuals available, possibly through a third-party printing service if it is not feasible for them to do it in-house.

I would also strongly advocate for RPL to be available on the Prime. If HP would cooperate with Claudio to include NewRPL that would probably be the most practical way. Integrating (New)RPL with CAS and Home would not be easy however.

John

[JDW]

(07-23-2018 01:03 PM)John Keith Wrote:  I don't think that including a 700-page manual with every calculator is sensible for business or environmental reasons. It seems to be broadly agreed that most users never even look at manuals. It would be great if HP could make printed manuals available, possibly through a third-party printing service if it is not feasible for them to do it in-house.

Trees are a renewable resource, so I am unconcerned about the environmental impact. I am actually pleased that "most people" don't like printed manuals because it makes me more unique among men in that I do like and do read them. Ah, the good old days of 700 page manuals that USED TO BE included with electronic devices! Those were the days! But I also embrace today's tech too. If I need to look up something fast, I'll do a search through the PDF version. But if I want to sit down for an hour and read page after page of a manual, I want print on paper.

But I will agree with you that HP could and should make all manuals available for on-demand printing, shipped anywhere in the world, for a somewhat reasonable price. They should be of high print quality, color covers, and spiral bound.

[Claudio L.]

(07-23-2018 01:03 PM)John Keith Wrote:  I don't think that including a 700-page manual with every calculator is sensible for business or environmental reasons. It seems to be broadly agreed that most users never even look at manuals. It would be great if HP could make printed manuals available, possibly through a third-party printing service if it is not feasible for them to do it in-house.

I don't understand, it's already a PDF file, I can send one email to my local printing shop and get that printed, bound and delivered to me within a few hours. Why should HP be involved at all?

(07-23-2018 01:03 PM)John Keith Wrote:  I would also strongly advocate for RPL to be available on the Prime. If HP would cooperate with Claudio to include NewRPL that would probably be the most practical way. Integrating (New)RPL with CAS and Home would not be easy however.

John

I don't think RPL is aligned with the vision and the direction HP gave the Prime, so I'd leave that topic alone.
HP did plenty already by not locking down the product (by digitally signing the firmware/bootloader, etc.), let's leave it at that.

[JDW]

(07-23-2018 02:23 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  I don't understand, it's already a PDF file, I can send one email to my local printing shop and get that printed, bound and delivered to me within a few hours. Why should HP be involved at all?

Simple. Because not everyone worldwide has a local printing shop that can get that PDF properly printed, nicely bound or quickly delivered within a few hours for a reasonable cost or for any price.

[Anders]

(07-23-2018 02:36 PM)JDW Wrote:  

(07-23-2018 02:23 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  I don't understand, it's already a PDF file, I can send one email to my local printing shop and get that printed, bound and delivered to me within a few hours. Why should HP be involved at all?

Simple. Because not everyone worldwide has a local printing shop that can get that PDF properly printed, nicely bound or quickly delivered within a few hours for a reasonable cost or for any price.

The other reason is that the Prime user guide is copyrighted (c) (like the other manuals) and is clearly marked so on page 2, which prohibits all reputable print shops from actually printing and bounding it.

Yes I tried to do this but was rejected (FedEx) for the copyright reason.

So if you try to go through the pain of doing it yourself in an open way - it turns out you cannot.

And that in plain English pisses me off.

[Komanguy]

(07-23-2018 01:52 PM)JDW Wrote:  

(07-23-2018 01:03 PM)John Keith Wrote:  I don't think that including a 700-page manual with every calculator is sensible for business or environmental reasons. It seems to be broadly agreed that most users never even look at manuals. It would be great if HP could make printed manuals available, possibly through a third-party printing service if it is not feasible for them to do it in-house.

Trees are a renewable resource, so I am unconcerned about the environmental impact. I am actually pleased that "most people" don't like printed manuals because it makes me more unique among men in that I do like and do read them. Ah, the good old days of 700 page manuals that USED TO BE included with electronic devices! Those were the days! But I also embrace today's tech too. If I need to look up something fast, I'll do a search through the PDF version. But if I want to sit down for an hour and read page after page of a manual, I want print on paper.

But I will agree with you that HP could and should make all manuals available for on-demand printing, shipped anywhere in the world, for a somewhat reasonable price. They should be of high print quality, color covers, and spiral bound.

Couldn't agree more.

[StephenG1CMZ]

(07-23-2018 02:36 PM)JDW Wrote:  

(07-23-2018 02:23 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  I don't understand, it's already a PDF file, I can send one email to my local printing shop and get that printed, bound and delivered to me within a few hours. Why should HP be involved at all?

Simple. Because not everyone worldwide has a local printing shop that can get that PDF properly printed, nicely bound or quickly delivered within a few hours for a reasonable cost or for any price.

Yes, having HP involved would be useful to ensure quality. The quality of local printers can be variable.
And one online pdf printer I looked at maxed out at 600 pages.

Also useful would be to have a few sample pages in both black and white and colour, in both A4 and A5 sizes, so the user can check whether a half-size print is worth the cost/weight saving.

[Claudio L.]

(07-23-2018 02:57 PM)Anders Wrote:  The other reason is that the Prime user guide is copyrighted (c) (like the other manuals) and is clearly marked so on page 2, which prohibits all reputable print shops from actually printing and bounding it.

Yes I tried to do this but was rejected (FedEx) for the copyright reason.

So if you try to go through the pain of doing it yourself in an open way - it turns out you cannot.

And that in plain English pisses me off.

Now that's a good reason, right there. I had no idea they would refuse to print a PDF manual because of copyright (I never tried). I understand the reasons for the refusal, I understand the author needs to claim its copyright, but there should be a clause to allow the customer that buys a legitimate product to print the manual, otherwise it's simply ridiculous. I'm all for cutting costs and giving the customers a PDF manual, but only if the customer is allowed to print it (of course!).

[DavidM]

(07-23-2018 08:24 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  Now that's a good reason, right there. I had no idea they would refuse to print a PDF manual because of copyright (I never tried). I understand the reasons for the refusal, I understand the author needs to claim its copyright, but there should be a clause to allow the customer that buys a legitimate product to print the manual, otherwise it's simply ridiculous. I'm all for cutting costs and giving the customers a PDF manual, but only if the customer is allowed to print it (of course!).

I just took a look at the copyright notice on my printed copy of the 50g AUR that I had done at a US-based printer a couple of years ago. It clearly states that reproduction is not allowed. I suppose I am fortunate that it was printed at all.

If there is a presumption that customers will be on their own for printing, the boilerplate copyright notice absolutely needs to be changed. The only other option appears to be for HP to give "prior written permission" for reproduction. Has that ever been done to anyone's knowledge?

[BERNARD MICHAUD]

Quote:So your work on the EE Library for the HP Prime is suspended until you can determine if cSolve can be used within the Solver App?

NO, My statement is I think rather clear and says (in short) that I suspended the program until Complex Numbers can be implemented in the Solver App. I was surprised to hear that Complex Numbers were not used in the 50g Solver either, yet a EE_Library was possible, but does have limitations in regards to AC circuits. Of course such a Library can be created outside a Solver App, but the coding becomes extensive. In addition to that I wrote a separate sentence concerning cSolve in response to a comment made by someone else. I have never used cSolve and I doubt it can be used in the Solver App either. I would like to see an example of cSolve ...by someone, used in the Solver App.

It seem to me also that the reason there isn't someone doing any work on a EE-Library for the Prime is that it involves a vast amount of work and research which not many are willing to do for free perhaps. As you know there is such a Library for the 50g, by Andreas Moeller, http://www.software49g.gmxhome.de/index.html but there is a price tag attached to it. It would be interesting to know (show of hands) how many Prime users would appreciate and use such a Library beside yourself who has shown some interest (thank you).

BM

[JDW]

(07-25-2018 01:36 AM)BERNARD MICHAUD Wrote:  It would be interesting to know (show of hands) how many Prime users would appreciate and use such a Library beside yourself who has shown some interest (thank you).

Strange. I never received an email notification of follow-up replies to this thread. I just noticed them while browsing through the thread by accident today. Sorry.

Well, my hand is raised in support of an EE Library for the Prime. I would think that HP should have its own hands raised too, as such an important library would bring value to the Prime.

[edryer]

Quote:To sum up:
- if you are an rpl power user go for the 50g
- else hp prime is your best choice (cheaper at the moment)

Interesting that the prices have reversed. As I mentioned on a previous thread it seems that the prices of the 50G are increasing as the shortage becomes more acute, both new and used. Well north of $150 on Amazon (third party sellers, may be used) and eBay prices reaching heights.

My advice if you want one buy as soon as possible. These babies are only going to increase on value.

[Marcelo Vanti]

(03-19-2014 09:58 AM)DrD Wrote:  I have encountered nothing the 50g would do that I could not do with the Prime, except for communication with external hardware (SCADA systems, for example). The Prime is much faster, the display size much bigger, and the future has greater prospects than the 50g. I find the programming to be easier. So, that's why I'm inclined towards the Prime, as favorite for now.

I completely agree.

[edryer]

(11-29-2018 08:42 PM)Marcelo Vanti Wrote:  

(03-19-2014 09:58 AM)DrD Wrote:  I have encountered nothing the 50g would do that I could not do with the Prime, except for communication with external hardware (SCADA systems, for example). The Prime is much faster, the display size much bigger, and the future has greater prospects than the 50g. I find the programming to be easier. So, that's why I'm inclined towards the Prime, as favorite for now.

I completely agree.

I have used both. RPN is an afterthought on the Prime and this of course was intentional.

Coupled with the flexibility of RPL it is a solid math platform (less so for stats but still respectable). Yes, RPL is not easy, but Math also is not easy, you put the effort in and reap the rewards.

The Prime seems like an educational platform like the n-spire, classpad and similar. Flashy colour screen, easy to use (idiot proof) and geared towards the classoom, with a rechargeable battery to make it snazzy (also likely consumes a lot more power of course than the 50G).

After a few days with the Prime I gave up and returned it.

Yes it was faster, but in 99%+ cases this simply isn't noticeable in practice or indeed needed.

Just my opinion!

[CyberAngel]

(11-30-2018 01:45 PM)edryer Wrote:  

(11-29-2018 08:42 PM)Marcelo Vanti Wrote:  I completely agree.

I have used both. RPN is an afterthought on the Prime and this of course was intentional.

Coupled with the flexibility of RPL it is a solid math platform (less so for stats but still respectable). Yes, RPL is not easy, but Math also is not easy, you put the effort in and reap the rewards.

The Prime seems like an educational platform like the n-spire, classpad and similar. Flashy colour screen, easy to use (idiot proof) and geared towards the classoom, with a rechargeable battery to make it snazzy (also likely consumes a lot more power of course than the 50G).

After a few days with the Prime I gave up and returned it.

Yes it was faster, but in 99%+ cases this simply isn't noticeable in practice or indeed needed.

Just my opinion!

I finally took time and learned the HP Prime in summer 2018.
I should use TI Nspire CX CAS in Physics
(I'm going Adult High School for entering a university again)
but it was too complicated and I'm back using the HP Prime.
To me TI is trash.

[edryer]

I liked the TI-89 Titanium however the LCD screen was too small and the fonts unchangeable. Also of course no RPN. It was built superbly. And with the cover still smaller than the HP-50G.

Thread creep a little but the finest calculator TI ever made in my opinion was the TI-86. I recall (I am sure) it actually had a few more math/stats functions than the TI-89/TI-89 Titanium. It was and remains a superb non CAS AOS Calculator, probably the best.

I stupidly gave it to a thrift shop a while back whilst having a clean out... and it was as new with a limited edition blue translucent cover... oh well.

HP-50G vs Prime... well I prefer the 50G but I suspect most of the target audience (teaching/studying folk) will prefer the Prime. Can't imagine most learning RPN or more unlikely programming in RPL.