I'd really like to see some imrovements to the in-calculator program editor.

[webmasterpdx]

In the program editor, there really needs to be some improvements. For example, the ability to search for a string. I was editing a long program and couldn't find a function I defined. I knew the name but couldn't find it and there is no search. I had to scroll thru the program....took me an hour to find the function.
I could think of many other abilities I'd like to see the program editor. I'd really like to see you guys improve it.
Remember the goal is to assist in the speed of programming....for if you do improve it.

[StephenG1CMZ]

Back when I first got my Prime on Android, I saw the need for that and wrote a program that could search. Since then, others have also implemented such capabilities.
http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-4672.html

But it would be much nicer to have the functionality built-in.

[webmasterpdx]

VI can fit on an old msdos floppy with plenty to spare in about 10K of space.....that would be really cool.

[Han]

While we are building a wish-list, it would be nice to see line numbers and syntax hi-lighting.

[DrD]

Throw in find and replace ... and the windows control key short cuts!

[Tyann]

Bonjour

Un dépliage/repliage des fonctions/programmes serait bien aussi.
Comme ceci :


Hello

Unfolding / folding functions / programs would be nice too.
Like this :

Code:


EXPORT function1()^
EXPORT function2()^
EXPORT function3()˅
BEGIN
   code...
END;
function4()^
etc...

[webmasterpdx]

vi does all of those things except for the function folding...vim contains that function, but it's a big version of vi. With the small version (old version), you can yank chunks of code into buffers quickly and restore them again when you need them. You can also write macros that would allow you to fold functions....I think :-)
When I say vi, I mean something with similar functionality....not exactly vi. The reason I suggest vi is because it fits in a small space and has a huge amount of power. Also some of the functions in vi could be made available to be called from programs, like regular expressions to parse strings.....you could write a program that could change 3 nthroot x to x^(1/3) and the like.

I doubt if this would happen though, but for sure, the program editor does need a rethink.

[DrD]

It's usually around this point in these discussions that Notepad++ comes up as a (vi)-able alternative. So why not just use that?

[webmasterpdx]

I'm talking on the calculator....not on the PC. I have 1000000 editors for the pc....it's on the calculator that I want this.

[salvomic]

(11-17-2017 04:06 PM)Han Wrote:  While we are building a wish-list, it would be nice to see line numbers and syntax hi-lighting.

I quote this, and add: modifiable fonts also...

[DrD]

In my computer science classes we used the unix based editor vi. This would be circa early-1980's. I remember it as not a particularly fun editor to use, and it seemed like, with the instructor, and in the labs, we often spent as much time wrestling with vi, as we did with the projects, especially the first year.

Quote:I'm talking on the calculator....not on the PC. I have 1000000 editors for the pc....it's on the calculator that I want this

You were speaking of an editor for the calculator, me too.

I realize Notepad ++ isn't readily portable. There may be licensing issues, etc. However it's free, the source code is available, and there is community support. As long as you're inventing the on-board-calculator-editor wheel, and you have 1e6 editors at your disposal, isn't there anything better than vi, among them?

Editing on the hw is tenuous, even IF you HAD a built in editor. The ck, even with it's shortcomings, is much better. We've both probably been around a long time, but I know I was able to make some pretty robust hp-48 programs, (because it had an I/O port), created for plc and rtu based telemetry applications. I developed them on the pc, not on the calc. I used them for many years, and even though there were times when I needed to change a [few] things within the on-calc programs, for anything significant, it was far better to develop those programs using a pc platform.

The handheld hw programming environment has about all it really needs, given the constraints of the physical product.

[salvomic]

(11-18-2017 03:32 PM)DrD Wrote:  In my computer science classes we used the unix based editor vi. This would be circa early-1980's. I remember it as not a particularly fun editor to use, and it seemed like, with the instructor, and in the labs, we often spent as much time wrestling with vi, as we did with the projects, especially the first year.

pure nostalgia...
as emacs nostalgia, an editor too nice to edit ...QPI...

emac (or vi) for the Prime would be a perfect (alternative) editor, in another World...

[Anders]

vi should be permanently banned once and for all! One of the few editors that are worse than the one currently implemented in Prime H/W. vi is quite possibly the biggest cumulative destroyer of programmer productivity over the history of programming (due to its time in market, wide spread mandatory usage in comp sci classes, ww presence and horrendous ui).
Notepad++ should be possible to do.

[TravisE]

I've gotten pretty used to efficiently (as far as these things go) edit directly on the 50g. Although I feel like reaching that full level of efficiency would have required a keyboard design closer to that of the 50g's (which unfortunately also means making it more complicated, which might have made it worse for casual/less-technical users), some ideas off the top of my head that would nonetheless make the Prime's editor more pleasant:

- Undo/redo (ideally one that could handle at least a few edits back; and the 50g really could have used even a simple undo function in its editor as well)

- Search/replace, as mentioned above

- Navigation improvements: a convenient means of jumping quickly to other functions in the program in particular (e.g., select from a menu, or have a submenu when editing a program where each subroutine can be edited as an independent item)

- Being able to return to the location last edited in the file, rather than always starting at the very top

- Making the Tmplt menu functions indentation-aware (meaning it inserts code block templates using the same indentation level as the code where they're being inserted)

- Some sort of quicker/easier means to perform basic cut/copy/paste (or the ability to have the Copy soft menu stay open for convenient application of consecutive copy/paste operations)

- Having some kind of menu or auto-completion system for quickly inserting the names of the variables/functions currently defined in the edited program would be nice

Though I'm not sure of the best way to fit these features into the Prime's current UI, which seems to use single-page soft menus and a fairly simple key layout as a design convention.

Also, especially when editing text, I sort of miss the option, like the 50g has, to configure the Alpha key to go directly into alpha-lock on the first press. Otherwise, having to frequently go in and out of alpha-lock is a bit of a pain (and is a bigger problem on the Prime since accessing digits and many symbols/functions requires leaving and reentering it much more often compared to the 50g, and the extra keystrokes having to constantly turn it on and off add up quickly). I know that one can hold down Alpha while typing a letter for caps, and Shift+Alpha for lowercase, but the latter especially seems a bit physically awkward, and I've found that at least one letter key (g) simply doesn't work reliably with both Shift and Alpha held down for some reason.

[StephenG1CMZ]

(11-19-2017 02:38 AM)TravisE Wrote:  I've gotten pretty used to efficiently (as far as these things go) edit directly on the 50g. Although I feel like reaching that full level of efficiency would have required a keyboard design closer to that of the 50g's (which unfortunately also means making it more complicated, which might have made it worse for casual/less-technical users), some ideas off the top of my head that would nonetheless make the Prime's editor more pleasant:

- Undo/redo (ideally one that could handle at least a few edits back; and the 50g really could have used even a simple undo function in its editor as well)

- Search/replace, as mentioned above

- Navigation improvements: a convenient means of jumping quickly to other functions in the program in particular (e.g., select from a menu, or have a submenu when editing a program where each subroutine can be edited as an independent item)

- Being able to return to the location last edited in the file, rather than always starting at the very top

- Making the Tmplt menu functions indentation-aware (meaning it inserts code block templates using the same indentation level as the code where they're being inserted)

- Some sort of quicker/easier means to perform basic cut/copy/paste (or the ability to have the Copy soft menu stay open for convenient application of consecutive copy/paste operations)

- Having some kind of menu or auto-completion system for quickly inserting the names of the variables/functions currently defined in the edited program would be nice

Though I'm not sure of the best way to fit these features into the Prime's current UI, which seems to use single-page soft menus and a fairly simple key layout as a design convention.

Also, especially when editing text, I sort of miss the option, like the 50g has, to configure the Alpha key to go directly into alpha-lock on the first press. Otherwise, having to frequently go in and out of alpha-lock is a bit of a pain (and is a bigger problem on the Prime since accessing digits and many symbols/functions requires leaving and reentering it much more often compared to the 50g, and the extra keystrokes having to constantly turn it on and off add up quickly). I know that one can hold down Alpha while typing a letter for caps, and Shift+Alpha for lowercase, but the latter especially seems a bit physically awkward, and I've found that at least one letter key (g) simply doesn't work reliably with both Shift and Alpha held down for some reason.

The idea of being able.to jump to a function is a good one.
Once compiled, exported functions are already shown in the Run menu, so adding some way of choosing one then jumping to it rather than running it shouldn't be too difficult to add...

[webmasterpdx]

emacs is too big. Vi fits in 10K.

Vi is a very powerful editor. Ask yourself this. I have 2 tests I give an editor. The first is simply to change a file with C++ comments to C comments. The second is to take a file of text and swap the first and last characters of each word. If you can't do that quickly in one or two commands, it's not an editor worth my time. I don't think notepad++ can do the latter.
Anyone who had trouble with vi, just didn't learn how to use it....it's called laziness.

BTW....here is how I'd do those 2 tasks in vi:

C++ to C comments:

:1,$g/\/\//s/$/\*\//
:1,$s/\/\//\/\*/

Swap first and last characters of each word in a text file:

Code:


:1,$s/\([^ ]\)\([a-zA-Z]\)\([a-zA-Z]*\)\([a-zA-Z]\)\([ $]\)/\1\4\3\2\5/g

I know you can do the same things in emacs, but you'd have to write a script for each....in vi you can just do it on the fly...no scripts needed....and like I said, fits in 10K.

Saying vi is unproductive is like saying command lines are of no use....I can be 1000 times more productive in a linux command line than I can be in windows. In fact, in windows I use cygwin to do my development as it's so much faster.....try doing grep from a gui :-) ....and as for visual studio...give me a break....that thing takes 20 minutes just to start up. vi takes 2 seconds....
I'll use GUI's for doing stuff like wysiwyg gui builder tools, but when I have some serious coding to do, I'll always go with vim (the expanded vi...which can do every single thing that visual studio can with respect to editing, except 1000 times faster...like code completion, etc, etc.).

Anyways, I'm not asking for vi (I know editors are like religion), just that kind of functionality.....

[salvomic]

(11-19-2017 10:56 AM)webmasterpdx Wrote:  emacs is too big. Vi fits in 10K.
...
Anyways, I'm not asking for vi (I know editors are like religion), just that kind of functionality...

eh, yeah, in fact...

For Prime we need only a little better editor, not so much...

[DrD]

(11-17-2017 09:22 AM)webmasterpdx Wrote:  VI can fit on an old msdos floppy with plenty to spare in about 10K of space.....that would be really cool.

"On your hand held Prime, would you prefer a 5.25" or 8" floppy disk with your editor, sir?"

NOTE: To avoid negativity, it was necessary to delete some content from this post, so I deleted this list of content:

{-1, thumbs down, down vote, boo, hiss, no way, vi fits in a garbage can too, stuck in the '80s};

and a few other items, that I felt were condescending, opinionated and undignified for a respectful editorial on vi. I'm glad I decided to delete that content. If something nice cannot be said, I know that saying nothing is nicer.

Out of respect, I say, "NOTHING."

[salvomic]

(11-19-2017 01:45 PM)DrD Wrote:  "On your hand held Prime, would you prefer a 5.25" or 8" floppy disk with your editor, sir?"

REQUEST: a new hardware Prime with port for USB memory key, CD reader and writer, and 3.5" (and 5.25") Floppy Disk with emacs and VIM built in, and (why not?) a Thunderbolt connector for future expansions...
Thank you.

EDIT: and also microPython inside, thank you again.

[DrD]

Don't forget the 19" rack mount adapters with pre-drilled holes for the standard screw slots! And ... fans. cooling fans; we need fans! (Don't we all?)