HP 15c CE - New firmware update officially available!

[Gene]

Reports are anecdotal without returned units

I am stating that the manufacturer has not seen enough of a signal behind random noise to indicate a problem.

Holding on to a unit that a user believes is an example of a problem rather than returning it is a sure way to have a problem continue

Self fulfilling prophecy for sure

[rprosperi]

(07-29-2024 10:49 PM)ijabbott Wrote:  

(07-27-2024 11:04 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  I've never tried any Linux version of SAM-BA, so this may not apply at all, however the older Windows version of SAM-BA was intended for use with Serial cables (as was used for HP-20/30/WP-34S) and is totally incompatible with the new USB cable. Possibly, the same is true with the version you're using, I just don't know, though I too would probably assume Windows 3.18 was functionally compatible with the Linux 3.18 version.

The 3.x versions won't work at all, I think, not even on Windows, because they don't support the SAM4L. But I was trying to get the Linux version of SAM-BA 2.18 to work. It's quite old, and I was trying to get it to work on an up-to-date Linux distro, so that probably has something to do with it. It might work better on a few years old distro.

I'm sorry, that was my typo mistake (twice!), I meant to type 2.18, trying to say I too would assume the Windows 2.18 would be compatible with the Linux 2.18 version. Sorry if that wasted any of your time...

[brouhaha]

(07-27-2024 11:04 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  I've never tried any Linux version of SAM-BA, so this may not apply at all, however the older Windows version of SAM-BA was intended for use with Serial cables (as was used for HP-20/30/WP-34S) and is totally incompatible with the new USB cable. Possibly, the same is true with the version you're using, I just don't know, though I too would probably assume Windows 3.18 was functionally compatible with the Linux 3.18 version.

I have wasted a lot of time trying to use various Linux versions of SAMBA including 2.16 and 2.18, with no success. Thus far I've had to use Windows (spit!).

[ctrclckws]

(07-30-2024 06:27 AM)brouhaha Wrote:  Thus far I've had to use Windows (spit!).

Love it, or hate it, MS Windows is here to stay, no matter which version you use, and other Operating systems are afterthoughts for developers.

Linux has a core of dedicated enthusiasts.
Apple has its proprietary hardware and enthusiastic followers.

Having the ability to run Windows on a VM is wonderful, but sometimes drives people crazy.

Sometimes, have to use what works.

[borjam]

(07-30-2024 01:54 PM)ctrclckws Wrote:  Love it, or hate it, MS Windows is here to stay, no matter which version you use, and other Operating systems are afterthoughts for developers.

Linux has a core of dedicated enthusiasts.
Apple has its proprietary hardware and enthusiastic followers.

The key is reasonably open standards.

For example, most Linux software can be compiled for *BSD or Macos thanks to an open API. It can run mostly regardless of the host CPU, be it Intel, SPARC, Apple Silicon or whatever.

Last week I updated a Swissmicros calculator from a Mac. All the hassle was to compile some software which was easy because it is a widely known Linux package so Macports had support for it.

[cdmackay]

thanks Ian et al; I'll have to try and find a Windows user to help me.

The problem with running Windows in a VM on a Mac is having to pay for a licence; I assume that's still required?

I don't have Windows in the house here; I use Linux and Mac, and the girls use Chromebooks.

[borjam]

(07-30-2024 05:20 PM)cdmackay Wrote:  thanks Ian et al; I'll have to try and find a Windows user to help me.

The problem with running Windows in a VM on a Mac is having to pay for a licence; I assume that's still required?

Technically you can get a free development/testing license that lasts for 30 days or so. I have done it a couple of times for the typical one shot thing.

Quote:I don't have Windows in the house here; I use Linux and Mac, and the girls use Chromebooks.

Same here. 35+ years running only Unix systems. In my case Macos, Linux and FreeBSD.

[borjam]

Updated, finally. Two days to update an old netbook I won at a raffle years ago!

CE serial number 07440.

It had an occasional bounce now and then, now it seems to work better. For the record I own an original HP-16C and it is slow, when pressing a key the screen vanishes briefly, so slow response is much better than bounces!

I would like to make a suggestion to Moravia, though.

Please pay attention to how HP implemented the keyboard test. They require the key presses to follow an exact order. A missing key or a bounce will result in an error message.

It works this way on the Voyagers, HP-32Sii and even the new HP-35S.

[ijabbott]

(07-30-2024 05:20 PM)cdmackay Wrote:  thanks Ian et al; I'll have to try and find a Windows user to help me.

The problem with running Windows in a VM on a Mac is having to pay for a licence; I assume that's still required?

It will whinge a bit, and won't let you change some cosmetic settings, but it will run without a license.

[cdmackay]

thanks borjam, Ian.

[Divasson]

Cables in the US: can be found at commerce.hpcalc.org

[Dave Britten]

(08-01-2024 07:45 AM)Divasson Wrote:  Cables in the US: can be found at commerce.hpcalc.org

Thanks! Don't know why I didn't think to check there earlier, since that's where I bought the calculator.

[Eric Rechlin]

(08-01-2024 04:25 PM)Dave Britten Wrote:  

(08-01-2024 07:45 AM)Divasson Wrote:  Cables in the US: can be found at commerce.hpcalc.org

Thanks! Don't know why I didn't think to check there earlier, since that's where I bought the calculator.

I just listed them (cables and overlays) for sale yesterday, so you weren't late.

I should have done it earlier (I've had the cables on hand for a couple months), but I've had a lot of other things going on lately that prevented me from getting to it. But the availability of the official firmware update and link software provided a real incentive to make the cables more readily available to Americans. So on Tuesday night I photographed them and cleaned up the photos, and on Wednesday night I did the write-ups and put the pages online.

[AnnoyedOne]

I've just joined this site and this is my first post. As a consequence I'll introduce myself.

I'm a retired electronic (electrical in the US) engineer. However I've been playing with electronics/computers/etc since I was 9. I was given a number of electronic kits as birthday/christmas presents during my youth.

In the March 1982, while studying to be an engineer, I purchased a brand new HP-15C at my university bookshop. I used it as a student, continually, and during my professional engineering career and still have it (and it still works!). It's pretty much "mint" (except for the pouch) and original except for the LR44 batteries. The same for the (original printed) manuals.

In July 1985 I purchased a HP-16C, at a good price, mail order. At the time I was writing 6809/68000 code in assembler and C so it came in handy. I still have it too and it also works fine.

I called myself an "embedded systems engineer" in my later years since I both designed hardware, built it, and wrote firmware/software. About equal parts of each. In the 80's I used mostly Motorola 68xx processors and wrote code in assembler. Later I moved to 16-bit and later 32-bit CPU's. Before retiring I was designing custom systems using ARM Cortex based SoC (System on Chip) devices. I used professional tools (compilers/debuggers/programmers). Most code was written from scratch (low-level hardware up).

That said I did this *professionally*. That is as paid work not as a hobbyist. Being retired I no longer do this stuff, or am interested, but am (obviously) very familiar with it. These days I'm an "end user" albeit one with a lot of knowledge.

Which brings me to the HP-15C CE.

I never knew about the HP-15C LE etc until some years ago. As I result I found a copy of the genuine HP-15C PC emulator that came out around that time. The version I have is free. It is no longer on HP's site but it is easily found on archive.org etc. I also have an early version of the HP-15C emulator for Android from around the same period. My tablet is old and obsolete and will NOT run the newer versions.

When I heard about the HP-15C CE I purchased one more for nostalgia than anything else. It sits, in the original (but opened) box, in a closet. I rarely use calculators (any) these days. When I do it is mainly for basic arithmetic.

My HP-15C CE does not exhibit any "key bounce" issues. Typically I used 20-100mS debounce times in my code (depending on the implementation). 120ms seems excessive to me.

So when a firmware update came out for the HP-15C CE recently the only thing that interested me was the ability to save/restore memory. However I didn't have a programming cable.

I have now ordered one. Neither my original HP-15C/HP-16C or emulators can save/restore memory. The two HP emulators use files (HP15CState.bin for the PC one)
to implement "constant memory". One could copy/rename files to achieve save/restore functionality but I've never bothered.

Since the HP-15C CE is pretty much unused I don't "need" the programming cable. However I'll have one. The 120mS "key debounce fix" and HP-16C mode "decimal fix" are of little interest to me. However the memory save/restore functionality may come in useful at some point.

Regards to all,

A1

[AnnoyedOne]

BTW I have used both Atmel/Microchip and other processors during my career.

The following may be of interest to technically minded HP-15C CE owners. Others can ignore them.

https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/aemD...asheet.pdf

https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/aemD...T03454.pdf

The HP-15C CE (and later HP-12C Platinum's) reportedly use the Atmel/Microchip ATSAM4LC2CA SoC.

A1

[Steve Simpkin]

(08-02-2024 12:10 AM)AnnoyedOne Wrote:  ...
The HP-15C CE (and later HP-12C Platinum's) reportedly use the Atmel/Microchip ATSAM4LC2CA SoC.
...

While the later versions of the HP-12C (made after 2015) do indeed use the Atmel/Microchip ATSAM4LC2CA with HP NUT emulation, the later HP-12C Platinum's use the GPLB31A processor which is based on a 6502 uP core.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP-12C#HP_.../_Prestige

[AnnoyedOne]

(08-02-2024 01:59 AM)Steve Simpkin Wrote:  ...the later HP-12C Platinum's use the GPLB31A processor which is based on a 6502 uP core.

Yes, I know that earlier (not "later") HP-12C Platinum's used a 6502 core CPU. From what I've read the code was new (not emulated HP NUT) and thus some calculations gave different result from the original, and later, HP-12C's. The HP-12C is a nice model IMO but I have no use for one.

And that's what I like about the HP-15C CE and my HP-15C emulators. All (to my knowledge) emulate the original HP NUT code. Some even have the same bugs (e.g. the original HP-15C CHS stack lift issue) and restrictions. IMHO HP stuff before the 1990's was the best one could buy (and you paid for it). Not now.

No offense to SwissMicros (and others) but I prefer the original and the best. That's the "engineer" in me.

As I understand it the HP NUT code has a few "bug" fixes -- in the HP-15C CE anyway. I've never looked at the NUT instruction set. Nor do I plan to.

A1

[AnnoyedOne]

I've done a bit of research and it looks like:

1) The HP-12C Platinum (all versions) uses a 6502 based CPU and in NOT updatable. About 6x faster than the original HP-12C and it has lots more memory and a few extra functions.

2) The latest version (and there are many) of the HP-12C (non-Platinum) uses the ATSAM4LC2CA SoC and IS updateable (using the HP15C CE programming cable). However it is an emulation of the original HP-12C NUT code and is thus the same (no extra memory/functionality etc). However about 20x faster.

Confusing to say the least. HP doesn't admit to these (or other) differences. Both are "current" although the ATSAM4LC2CA based HP-12C is hard to find. If you live in the EU you can buy it at

https://www.thecalculatorstore.com/epage...%23INT-STD

A1

[rprosperi]

(08-03-2024 02:54 PM)AnnoyedOne Wrote:  The HP-12C Platinum (all versions) uses a 6502 based CPU and in NOT updatable. About 6x faster than the original HP-12C and it has lots more memory and a few extra functions.

The initial 12C Platinum machines (Silver face, only 2 of the rightmost keys have blue-shifted functions) are actually notably faster than all that followed, as these later ones include the "Undo" feature, which overhead seems to have slowed overall execution; for interactive use, it's not at all noticeable, but for extended-run programs, it's up to twice as fast.

[Uwe-001]

Experience report with the new firmware for the HP-15 CE:

I bought the programming cable online in the Moravia Shop for approx. 31 € incl. shipping. Shipping from the Czech Republic to Germany within a few days with DPD forwarder.
Firmware and instructions downloaded from Moravia, the recommended software SAM-BAv2.18 for Windows from the specified source. Installed on my cheap Lenovo notebook with Windows 11 Home, I was able to update the calculator without any problems. Only the Com Port "Bossa Program Port" was not displayed in the Windows Device Manager, but only a serial port without any further name, here Com 3. I used this with the Atmel software and after a few seconds the new firmware was installed and also verified. The calculator is running perfectly with the new firmware, but my model already had no or hardly any problems with bouncing keys.

Regards,
Uwe