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Xcas/Giac vs HP Prime: LambertW
03-26-2019, 08:08 PM (This post was last modified: 03-26-2019 08:09 PM by Lode.)
Post: #1
Xcas/Giac vs HP Prime: LambertW
Hi,

If I got it correctly, HP Prime runs Xcas/Giac as the CAS engine.

I'm wondering about the following feature:

When trying Xcas/Giac online, it supports LambertW, but the HP Prime does not:

You can try Xcas/Gias in browser:
https://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~par...casen.html
And entering
solve(x*exp(x)=y,x)
in there, gives as solution:
list[LambertW(y),LambertW(y,-1)]

However, when trying the same expression on the HP Prime, it instead says "failed to isolate solutions"

So was LambertW support removed from Xcas/Giac for the HP Prime?

Thanks
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03-27-2019, 01:28 AM
Post: #2
RE: Xcas/Giac vs HP Prime: LambertW
Xcas/Giac has many functions and capabilities that are not available in Prime (for lots of reasons, including some obvious ones like needed resources, UI limitations, etc.) however there is no definitive list of what is/isn't included in Prime, partly because Xcas/Giac continues to evolve and add capabilities and to a lesser extent, Prime has also added more in nearly every software update (roughly twice per year), so any list would be misleading or obsolete.

--Bob Prosperi
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03-27-2019, 06:19 AM
Post: #3
RE: Xcas/Giac vs HP Prime: LambertW
LambertW has been added recently in Xcas, about 4 months ago.
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03-27-2019, 07:41 AM (This post was last modified: 03-27-2019 07:45 AM by Anders.)
Post: #4
RE: Xcas/Giac vs HP Prime: LambertW
(03-27-2019 01:28 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  Xcas/Giac has many functions and capabilities that are not available in Prime (for lots of reasons, including some obvious ones like needed resources, UI limitations, etc.) however there is no definitive list of what is/isn't included in Prime, partly because Xcas/Giac continues to evolve and add capabilities and to a lesser extent, Prime has also added more in nearly every software update (roughly twice per year), so any list would be misleading or obsolete.

I disagree. There is no reason why HP cannot provide the complete list of functions with every f/w update. This should be easy todo as a bare minimum change log.


The user guide is now hopelessly behind the actual capability of the latest f/w. Worse, despite the community raising this point many times over the years (in this forum), I fear that HP has now given up on actually doing something about it.

The latest iteration of the User Guide (which is the most advanced documentation by HP), still to this date, is still not covering all functions from even the original f/w, never mind (the many, many) changes and additions since then.

The HP Prime Help file is sometimes referred to as a more up-to-date list, but it to has become outdated with the latest f/w...

However, luckily there is some really good work that has been done by the community. See this section for some very good community driven documentation and guides here:
http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-818.html

Specifically, when it comes to HP Prime CAS, this is by far the best: https://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~par...me_cas.pdf. Not 100% up-to-date any more, but it is pretty darn good (i.e. awesome!) and it is the best we got.
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03-27-2019, 01:21 PM
Post: #5
RE: Xcas/Giac vs HP Prime: LambertW
(03-27-2019 07:41 AM)Anders Wrote:  There is no reason why HP cannot provide the complete list of functions with every f/w update. This should be easy todo as a bare minimum change log.

I fully agree with you, regarding what could (and IMHO should) be done, but given the apparent reality of limited resources, any time spent improving the manual would be better spent (again IMHO) on documenting basic use and features of the core Prime rather than on the ever-evolving obscure CAS features, which users seem to be better able to explore and find on their own.

This discussion is a good example; while all 11 people that know what LambertW is and how it would be used would really appreciate seeing that it is included, virtually all Prime users (or at least all that actually look in the manual) would benefit from some improvements regarding basic use of core features. Just one opinion though...

--Bob Prosperi
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03-27-2019, 04:45 PM (This post was last modified: 03-27-2019 07:14 PM by Anders.)
Post: #6
RE: Xcas/Giac vs HP Prime: LambertW
(03-27-2019 01:21 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  
(03-27-2019 07:41 AM)Anders Wrote:  There is no reason why HP cannot provide the complete list of functions with every f/w update. This should be easy todo as a bare minimum change log.

I fully agree with you, regarding what could (and IMHO should) be done, but given the apparent reality of limited resources, any time spent improving the manual would be better spent (again IMHO) on documenting basic use and features of the core Prime rather than on the ever-evolving obscure CAS features, which users seem to be better able to explore and find on their own.

This discussion is a good example; while all 11 people that know what LambertW is and how it would be used would really appreciate seeing that it is included, virtually all Prime users (or at least all that actually look in the manual) would benefit from some improvements regarding basic use of core features. Just one opinion though...

Yeah, I believe HP's ambition is limited to getting students to consider HP Prime for High school or when they start College. What ever they do with it after they start college or actually use it in higher level classes (Math, Engineering etc) is not really a focus. The state of the official documentation or lack there of is a testament to that.

It is frustrating because with the all the f/w updates, HP Prime is extremely capable (H/W and S/W). But all this capability is well hidden only to be discovered by the individual who is truly motivated to sift through posts on this forum or through experimentation. HP Prime is like a cut diamond covered in dirt which each individual has to remove themself bit by bit to understand what they have.
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