Threaded Mode | Linear Mode

bbergman · (This post was last modified: 10-28-2021 02:43 PM by bbergman.)

>> As some folks have already said...

Honestly, if the firmware is still around and available for fixing, then it wouldn't be that difficult for them to address some of these bugs and annoyances. All in software. If they did that, even without a USB port, I think they'd have a solid winner on their hands. As you say, one can only dream...

toml_12953 · 10-28-2021, 02:54 PM

(10-28-2021 02:29 PM)bbergman Wrote: >> As some folks have already said...

Honestly, if the firmware is still around and available for fixing, then it wouldn't be that difficult for them to address some of these bugs and annoyances. All in software. If they did that, even without a USB port, I think they'd have a solid winner on their hands. As you say, one can only dream...

It seems like Kinpo (Kimpo?) owns the firmware and so HP can't make any changes to it.

Nate · 10-29-2021, 02:52 AM

If I remember correctly, the source code was lost.

Roberto Volpi · 10-29-2021, 05:46 AM

(10-29-2021 02:52 AM)Nate Wrote: If I remember correctly, the source code was lost.

Some reference to confirm it?

EdS2 · 10-29-2021, 09:05 AM

(10-29-2021 05:46 AM)Roberto Volpi Wrote:
(10-29-2021 02:52 AM)Nate Wrote: If I remember correctly, the source code was lost.

Some reference to confirm it?

I found this note, in another thread, which perhaps implies the source was not at that time lost, but perhaps not very useful:

(02-24-2015 02:27 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote:
(02-22-2015 07:21 PM)Tugdual Wrote: Using IDA you rapidly accumulate a lot legit 6502 fragments and it doesn't even look like it was compiled from C which I found surprising.

Hmm... maybe you start to understand the problem/difficulty in fixing things... :-)

Completely non-documented (at least in anything but sparse chinese) source, non-English tools, extensive regions of assembly using non-standard assembly heavily dependent on non-documented features and registers requiring a close working relationship with the exact chip manufacturer (who doesn't have anyone who understands the chip anymore), no way to flash or change the firmware once flashed, etc

If you can imagine it, chances are it is part of the issue.

Roberto Volpi · 10-29-2021, 09:11 AM

(10-29-2021 09:05 AM)EdS2 Wrote:
(10-29-2021 05:46 AM)Roberto Volpi Wrote: Some reference to confirm it?

I found this note, in another thread, which perhaps implies the source was not at that time lost, but perhaps not very useful:

(02-24-2015 02:27 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote: Hmm... maybe you start to understand the problem/difficulty in fixing things... :-)

Completely non-documented (at least in anything but sparse chinese) source, non-English tools, extensive regions of assembly using non-standard assembly heavily dependent on non-documented features and registers requiring a close working relationship with the exact chip manufacturer (who doesn't have anyone who understands the chip anymore), no way to flash or change the firmware once flashed, etc

If you can imagine it, chances are it is part of the issue.

Well, so just an undocumented rumour…

Jake Schwartz · 10-29-2021, 02:47 PM

Perhaps it's time for a "Free42" type effort to recreate the 35S, with perhaps some key improvements (besides bug fixes), like a USB port. I always thought that the 35S would have benefited from an LCD like the one in the silver 17BII+ and a keyboard top row which would support soft-key menus. To me, this would be a worthy SwissMicros project.

Thanks,
Jake

bbergman · 10-29-2021, 03:24 PM

(02-24-2015 02:27 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote: Hmm... maybe you start to understand the problem/difficulty in fixing things... :-)

Completely non-documented (at least in anything but sparse chinese) source, non-English tools, extensive regions of assembly using non-standard assembly heavily dependent on non-documented features and registers requiring a close working relationship with the exact chip manufacturer (who doesn't have anyone who understands the chip anymore), no way to flash or change the firmware once flashed, etc

Oh, as a 30+ year career software engineer, I definitely can appreciate the difficulty in fixing legacy code without documentation! Smile

Maybe at some point in the future, HP might consider bringing on a couple of part-time contractors (so they're under NDA and copyright limitations) who have a background in embedded code, and who might be willing to take a shot at addressing the most egregious bugs. Not for monetary benefit or recognition, but just out of love for the product and desire to bring some of the heyday back to a product.

Just a thought.

Roberto Volpi · (This post was last modified: 10-29-2021 03:29 PM by Roberto Volpi.)

(10-29-2021 03:24 PM)bbergman Wrote: [quote='Tim Wessman' pid='28551' dateline='1424788071']
...
who might be willing to take a shot at addressing the most egregious bugs. Not for monetary benefit or recognition, but just out of love for the product and desire to bring some of the heyday back to a product.

Just a thought.

Do you really think HP will work "not for monetary benefit"?

bbergman · (This post was last modified: 10-29-2021 03:36 PM by bbergman.)

(10-29-2021 03:29 PM)Roberto Volpi Wrote: Do you really think HP will work "not for monetary benefit"?

Not at all. I was speaking about the contractors they could hire for minimal cost. THEY would not be working for monetary benefit. HP could take all of the benefit of a revived product, as far as I'm concerned.

Roberto Volpi · 10-29-2021, 03:38 PM

(10-29-2021 03:35 PM)bbergman Wrote:
(10-29-2021 03:29 PM)Roberto Volpi Wrote: Do you really think HP will work "not for monetary benefit"?

Not at all. I was speaking about the contractors they could hire for minimal cost. THEY would not be working for monetary benefit. HP could take all of the benefit of a revived product, as far as I'm concerned.

Well, would you like to be an enthusiastic volunteer in this project?

bbergman · 10-29-2021, 03:51 PM

(10-29-2021 03:38 PM)Roberto Volpi Wrote: Well, would you like to be an enthusiastic volunteer in this project?

Absolutely. That was the point of my subtle hint. Smile

Steve Simpkin · (This post was last modified: 10-29-2021 07:19 PM by Steve Simpkin.)

(10-29-2021 02:47 PM)Jake Schwartz Wrote: Perhaps it's time for a "Free42" type effort to recreate the 35S, with perhaps some key improvements (besides bug fixes), like a USB port. I always thought that the 35S would have benefited from an LCD like the one in the silver 17BII+ and a keyboard top row which would support soft-key menus. To me, this would be a worthy SwissMicros project.

Thanks,
Jake

Well SwissMicros did hint at an upcoming Keystroke programmable, Saturn based, entry level, RPN calculator with no complex menus back in May. Perhaps an enhanced HP-32SII using the DM42 hardware would fit the bill as a HP 35s replacement.

https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-17021.html

Sukiari · 11-01-2021, 05:41 AM

I bought one of these and I hate it. It doesn’t feel like an HP, the keyboard is cluttered with useless stuff, it’s really sad. I’m so glad SwissMicros is here to save us from what has become of HP.

Peet · 11-01-2021, 08:12 AM

(10-29-2021 07:17 PM)Steve Simpkin Wrote: Perhaps an enhanced HP-32SII using the DM42 hardware would fit the bill as a HP 35s replacement.

Doesn't the DM42 already serve this purpose much better? What advantage would a 32 with the same hardware have?

Steve Simpkin · 11-01-2021, 11:49 AM

(11-01-2021 08:12 AM)Peet Wrote:
(10-29-2021 07:17 PM)Steve Simpkin Wrote: Perhaps an enhanced HP-32SII using the DM42 hardware would fit the bill as a HP 35s replacement.

Doesn't the DM42 already serve this purpose much better? What advantage would a 32 with the same hardware have?

Point taken. I do like the equation list and algebraic solver of the HP-32SII/HP33s/HP35s but the DM42 is superior in every other respect. I was more trying to speculate what SwissMicros might have been teasing us with back in May (Keystroke programmable, Saturn based, entry level, RPN with no complex menus).

John Keith · (This post was last modified: 11-01-2021 02:41 PM by John Keith.)

It seems to me that "no complex menus" is the important point here. The HP-32SII/HP33s/HP35s have most commonly used mathematical functions and several useful unit conversions on the keyboard, no hunting through menus required.

Jeff O. · 11-02-2021, 09:22 PM

(10-27-2021 10:57 PM)bbergman Wrote: By the way, there's a Walmart Seller (Photo4Less) that's still selling NIB 35's for $54. That's a good $10+ less than the eBay and Amazon prices right now. Just got mine the other day and it was in perfect condition, including sealed HP theft detection strip still in place.

I have two 35s units from 2007, each with a key or two or three that require extra pressure to register, so I figured I'd go ahead and buy one more, especially if it has been discontinued. I ordered one from the Walmart seller, it arrived in about 4 days. Some general observations:
- made in the Philippines
- S/N is PHA030_ _ _ _ , I assume that means made in 2020, week 30?
- compared to my old units, the new keys feel a little more "poppy", i.e., a little better. No real way to tell if that is due to the old keyboards being old, or some inherent difference, but it is a real difference.
- the left-shift (or up-shift) legends above the keys are are bolder and more gold than the yellow of the old units. I think this is an inherent difference, i.e., not that the old ones have faded.
- the packaging proudly proclaimed "Bonus! Protective case included". Not the zip-up clam-shell of the originals, instead is a slip-on with elastic sides, like came with the 30b if I recall correctly. At least there is no zipper to break.

I know that many have no love for the 35s, but, I give it much credit for being the only RPN model to have an "i" key. And almost certainly the last RPN (scientific, not counting the 12C which will apparently live forever) to be produced by HP, so, I guess also credit for being the end of an era. Worth $55 to me to get one more, but your mileage may vary of course.

DM48 · 11-29-2021, 01:37 AM

I enjoy the 35s after using it now for several years. It is allowed on exams and that is a big plus for me.

Roberto Volpi · 11-29-2021, 06:24 AM

I don't think the HP35S will be discontinued any soon.

It sells steady, and as long as it sells it is ok for HP.

It is the only RPN programmable scientific calculator, it is officially admitted in some exams in the US, as PE and FE, so it has its own market niche.

Maybe it could be interesting to know if HP is developing a project for a new RPN programmable scientific calculator, instead of speculating, as for the last 10 years has been done, if the HP35S is already discontinued or not.